Long shoulders

[RR MiniSatins]

Hi, I have heard a lot of people talk about long shoulders. Could someone please explain to me how to "see" long shoulders? Thanks

 

[Random Rabbit]

Hi, I have heard a lot of people talk about long shoulders. Could someone please explain to me how to "see" long shoulders? Thanks

We will often get down so the rabbit is eye level... then looking right behind where the head joins the body... we will either see the rise of the body start Right behind the head... or there might be a space... one, two or three finger widths and Then the rise starts. The More fingers that can be placed between the head and that rise... the Longer the shoulders are.

Most breeds, one wants that rise to start as close to the head as possible. I believe mini Satins are one of those breeds.

Certain breeds such as Flemish Giants, the American and Beveren ... are Supposed to have a space between head and the rise.

 

[RR MiniSatins]

Thank you Random Rabbit. That makes it very clear, I can definitely understand that!

 

[KKRabbitry]

Random Rabbit explained it really well. The "finger test" is a really good way to tell, just like Random Rabbit explained.

I've been working on creating an article about Mini Lop type, so I happen to have pictures of a Mini lop with long shoulders, and one with good shoulders.
Sometimes a visual picture helps to understand things......at least it does with me!



^This is one with good shoulders. The rise starts right at the base of the head and continues in a nice smooth rise.


^This one has long shoulders. As you can see, there is a bit of low dip right behind the head, before it begins to rise.

 

[SatinsRule]

Since you're obviously raising mini satins, what it would mean to you is that the start of the arch on the body area behind the head is late at its starting point. You wind up getting a flat spot before that arch occurs, and it's something which will kill you on the judging tables.

You generally want that arch to start immediately behind the head. Any delayed area over the shoulder is referred to as being "long". Be careful not to confuse that with being narrow or weak in the shoulder area, both of which are commonly used to refer to an animal which doesn't have much development in the shoulder area as viewed from over the top of the animal. They may be both present and observable on the same animal, but they are not really related to one another.

 

[RR MiniSatins]

Thanks everyone, the pictures and descriptions really help. When do you usually start culling for long or narrow shoulders or pinched rears? If they are that way at 8 weeks do they sometimes grow out to be better? At what age would you be able to maybe say that is probably the best they will ever be? I know it's different for each line or different individuals, but what is a general rule of thumb? Thanks

 

[SatinsRule]

With satins and mini satins, that is where it can really get tricky. Particularly with satins, there are a lot of rabbits that are late bloomers, and if you're too overzealous about how you cull, you'll wind up eliminating the rabbits that ultimately turn out to be the best rabbits in litters. There is a satin breeder in IL whose herd buck was long and narrow in the shoulder until he was about 4 months old, then he came on like gang busters. The man has gotten some absolute bombshell bunnies out of him, and it's all because I took the time to let him develop. Most breeders would have culled him.

 

[RR MiniSatins]

Thanks, I guess it's best not to get too impatient if you have the room to wait and see! Do you find that with the red satins the color sometimes darkens as they age, or after 3-4 months is that about the color you're going to get?

 

[SatinsRule]

You generally won't see their color "darken", but as they lose their baby coats and begin showing their sheen, it may seem to change a little bit because the luster that goes along with the sheen starts to bring out brilliance which was not as apparent before.

The one thing I'd caution you about with reds is to be very careful about which other varieties you breed them with. Just about any other variety will cause a multitude of color issues which take generation upon generation afterward to clean up. The problems range from smut to undercolor.

Join the American Satin RBA. They have a member guide book which is invaluable with advice on what other colors work well with them. As you might guess, the list of other varieties as it pertains to the reds is rather short.

 

[RR MiniSatins]

Thanks again, I appreciate it