Litter of Nine, Cold but Alive!

[Truckinguy]

I went out to do chores last night and for some reason I decided to check a nest box in the far end of the colony and found a fresh litter of nine, all alive but very cold and moving very slowly. The mother pulled a bit of fur but not enough and they were scattered around the nest box uncovered. I brought them inside and put them under a heating pad then brought a nest box full of fresh straw in along with some fur from a nest that Lucille built a week or so ago and no litter appeared.

This morning they were all warm and wiggly so I took the nest box out and put it back in the colony. I"ll go check in it in an hour or so and if they are cold again I'll bring them back inside. The parents are the two surviving rabbits from Fred and Lucille's last litter who have been together with the Black Doe. I know they are brother and sister but with all the phantom litters here lately I didn't want to dispatch anyone until I figured the situation out. Anyway, If they aren't fed or covered properly I'll have to bring them in and maybe bring the doe in, flip her over and see if they will get some milk that way.

At least it's a live litter. That's more luck than I"ve had here in a while. We'll see how the next couple of days go. Fingers crossed!

 

[MaggieJ]

Glad to hear you finally got a live litter, Truckinguy.

Hope they do well! :good-luck: I don't think you need to worry about a brother-sister mating. Rabbits can stand a lot of inbreeding and sometimes it is beneficial.

 

[EnglishSpot]

:clover: I am so happy you have a litter and they are alive!!! Your streak is broken!! All the :clover: :clover: has worked!!! Great save and congratulations!! Maybe break up the litter and see if Black Doe has milk???

 

[Truckinguy]

I went out about an hour later and Momma was sitting on top of the nest box pulling fur like it was going out of style. That's a very good sign! I won't stop holding my breath for a few days, though... <br /><br /> __________ Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:10 am __________ <br /><br />

:clover: I am so happy you have a litter and they are alive!!! Your streak is broken!! All the :clover: :clover: has worked!!! Great save and congratulations!! Maybe break up the litter and see if Black Doe has milk???

I thought of that but this might be another indication that Black Doe is eating her babies and I don't want to entrust them to her. I've had does raise nine kits before no problem. If I find there are a couple of kits falling behind after a couple of days I'll bring in the larger half of the litter for the night and let the smaller ones get a good feeding over night and bring the bigger ones back out the next morning. The larger ones who are likely winning the Battle of the Nipples won't be harmed by missing one feeding occasionally although they are hungry in the morning. I might do that two or three times over the first couple of weeks and it seems to work well.

 

[Rainey]

I've never tried flipping a doe to give the kits a chance at being fed--my does aren't very happy with being handled and didn't think it would help with letting milk down. But we have brought nestboxes inside fir the first few days to a week when it's been cold and just taken them out to the doe twice a day for feeding and that worked well for us. Gives us a chance to check the kits carefully too.[/color]
At least it's a live litter. That's more luck than I"ve had here in a while. We'll see how the next couple of days go. Fingers crossed!

Glad you've had this success and hope it continues for you

 

[Truckinguy]

Lost one kit yesterday because it got separated from the others so I brought the nest box inside last night and took it back out this morning. I'm going out in a bit to see if they've been fed and check that they are all together. This cold snap is a bit worrisome but I can bring them in each night which I don't' like to do because I"m trying not to have animals in the house. Everything depends on if the doe feeds them. I"mve had no luck feeding now born kits so it's fingers, toes and everything else crossed!

 

[MaggieJ]

I think you'll need to bring the nest box in over the weekend, Truckinguy. They're talking about serious cold weather here, down as far as -25 C. Your area could be even colder as you are further from the Lake.

My fingers and toes crossed for your kits too! (Though it makes it hard to type.)

 

[Truckinguy]

Thanks, Maggie. I just checked on them, doesn't look like they've been fed yet and they're not as hot as they were this morning. I might bring the doe and kits inside in a cage and see what happens.

On the good side, the chickens are starting to lay again and I caught the mink. Positive thoughts!

 

[Rainey]

I second Maggie's post.

And I hear you about not wanting to keep animals in the house. We don't usually either but last spring when it was still really cold when we started breeding, we brought nest boxes in for the first week, just taking them out for half an hour morning and evening for feeding. Taking them back and forth is an extra chore but they weren't smelly being inside. And it got the kits through that crucial first week. It's going to be really cold here too this weekend and I'd worry about the doe sleeping in the nest box to stay warmer and scattering kits.

I'm sitting here cross-eyed and hoping the rest all make it

 

[EnglishSpot]

Good luck everyone who is getting this ugly cold snap this weekend!!

And congratulations on getting your mink, Truckinguy!! Time to ornament a rabbitskin shirt with a mink tail!!

 

[Miss M]

I'm so glad you've finally got some babies! It's been a long dry spell for you!

Great save, and hopefully she'll get the fur done in the right order next time.

My does have never taken to being flipped -- I end up with airborne kits. I will hold them in the nestbox if they haven't figured out the nursing thing. We had one doe that required four people to keep her in the box! :shock: Took only a couple of times, thank goodness!

 

[Zass]

Flipping a doe over has never worked well for me either, but I have occasionally held skinny kits under a doe who was upright.
Mucky was great for that kind of foster feeding, since she was already in the habit of relaxing in my lap.

I hope your kits are doing well.

 

[Truckinguy]

Well, there's three left this morning. I took the nest box out yesterday morning and put it in the colony and the kits were hot and very wiggly. I checked about ten times yesterday and and the doe jumped in the nestbox each time and looked at me but by the end of the day the kits were very wrinkly and getting cold in spite of a thick nest of fur. I brought them in around dinner time and fed them with an eye dropper three times during the night with KMR and corn syrup. They all gobbled down 2/3 of an eye dropper each time but I lost one between the second and third feedings and then there were only three left when I went to feed them a couple of hours ago. One was too weak to eat and I don't expect it to last long and the other two took another 2/3 of an eye dropper but are looking bony and wrinkly and lying on their side which isn't a good sign.

I flipped the Momma in her back in the afternoon and checked for milk but there didn't seem to be much. I put a couple of kits on her stomach, parted the hair around the nipples and put their mouths on them but they didn't seem to show any desire to suckle. I checked the black doe also but she didn't seem to have milk either. It doesn't mean they didn't have milk but I did a little squeeze of their nipples and only a slight little bit of white come out of the Momma's nipple. Neither one seemed to be too swollen but I did find a lump on Black Doe's belly that needs further investigation.

Looks like a Jack Daniel's in the cereal kind of morning.

 

[MaggieJ]

I'm so sorry you're losing them, Truckinguy.

It seems odd that neither doe has milk. They are related, correct? I wonder if you need to consider getting some new does?

 

[Truckinguy]

I'm so sorry you're losing them, Truckinguy.

It seems odd that neither doe has milk. They are related, correct? I wonder if you need to consider getting some new does?

Thanks, Maggie. I"m not saying they didn't for sure but the Black doe didn't produce a drop when I squeezed her nipple and the Momma doe did produce the tiniest white bit but I may not be squeezing right. Black Doe had her chewed up litter about a week ago so she may be dried up by now. I am getting a new doe in three or four weeks so hopefully fresh blood will change things around.

Hopefully spring will bring a fresh start here at The Welcome Homestead in a few ways.

 

[Rainey]

Sorry you're losing kits. That is so hard when the doe just doesn't seem to be feeding them. Happened to us last spring with the first doe we bred that year, and her first time ever. I just felt so discouraged--gave her a second chance and then just culled, couldn't cope with those starving newborn kits. then the second first-timer lost 2 of 6 for her first litter. After that the rest of the year went well, litters of 7 to 12 and all growing well. Hope things turn around for you soon.

 

[MaggieJ]

It's not uncommon for first-timers to be clueless . . . and they often go on to become competent mothers with their second or third litter. I think just about any doe deserves a second chance, but the third one, for me, would be dependent on circumstances. A predator scare, extreme weather or other stresses would be reasons for a third chance, but generally speaking a doe should show some signs of "getting it" with her second litter.

 

[Miss M]

Any chance some parsley might help her increase production?

 

[Truckinguy]

Well, they're gone now. The last one died a couple of hours ago. It's been two nights of multiple feedings, the kitchen looks like I dropped a straw bale in it along with a lot of spilled formula, a pile of soiled cloths on the table and pots and pans all over the place. It's discouraging seeing the nine little bodies neatly piled on the kitchen table. I've had many years of successes, though, and probably raised a couple hundred kits successfully so these bad times are bound to happen now and then. I pretty much knew they wouldn't make it but I had to try. I think brand new kits really need their mothers milk for the first few days at least.

Thanks for the encouragement. There's a lot of good people on this site.

 

[MaggieJ]

Aw, that's really sad, Truckinguy, but at least you gave it your best try. I think anyone raising rabbits for any length of time has litters like that now and again. It's just sometimes the bad times seem to come all at once. Hang in there!