Lionhead color breeding

[Jerryf]

Bred French Angoraas for years. Now after a hiatus, I keep a few Lionheads.I have 3 junior lionheads 12 weeks old- 2 does and a buck. Breeding age come April. Princess is a blue tort, Duchess is orange with some black on rear and buck Duke is orange. Double maned with skirt. Excellent fur and body type. They were sired by a well marked harlequin lionhead buck. their dams were torts. They all should carry harlequin markings, correct? So I should few some harleys, torts and oranges "Queenie" A fourth lionhead doe I was told is a dark sable. I have a chocolate lionhead buck --really a lion- jersey cross.....as he has too much fluff on his back. he looks jersey woolie. If I bred him to my lionheads- Would he enhance the manes or ruin the lionhead slick backs? So I should sell the chocolate buck as a pet?
I need your opinions and advice I hav added pictures of all...colors are my best guess please correct me if I am wrong, Thanks
Jerry

__________ Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:59 am __________

Duke, Duchess and princess have a full sister She is harley marked

 

[Marinea]

Sorry, I don't know the answers to your questions, but...Duchess is absolutely gorgeous. My Boris (broken black lionhead) would LOVE to make her acquaintance!

~Marinea, rabbit pimp~

 

[Dood]

They all should carry harlequin markings, correct?

no, their father the harlequin could only have one harlequin 'ej' gene paired with a non extension 'e' in order to sire torts and their tort mothers carry two non extension 'e' genes so they could have both or two non extension.
It is difficult to see Princess tort markings in the picture, but if she is a tort then she does not carry harlequin
Duke is a fawn / orange
Duchess is a harlequin if she has a ribbon of black on her

Queenie is a black tort

The chocolate buck looks chocolate I dont know what effect his woolyness will have on his mane or the body fur of his offspring.

 

[Jerryf]

I added a better picture of Princess So they will make more torts No harlequins

 

[Peach]

You gotta watch out introducing tort to harlequins. When you are able to achieve it, you can get torted tri which considered ,if this were an accepted breed, a DQ because the color is incorrect

BUT

I did find an interesting website to fix torted tris because they can be useful.

" Torted Tri’s– I have seen on
multiple websites, blogs and facebook pages that you should never breed the tort
gene into your Tri’s. Genetically it’s NOT an issue… All you have to do
is breed the Torted Tri back to an Agouti based Tri to erase the Tort gene from
future generations. Yes… It’s that easy!
I have several Torted Tri’s/Harlie’s and I have their littermates
who are not Torted because they received the Agouti gene.
Tri’s are not on a high quality level across the board. They are
not like Blacks or Castors where every time you turn a corner there’s a quality
one for sale… Tri Color breeders have to create their own quality and the only
way to do that is cross in other varieties that have already been worked on and
improved upon!
Red’s or Castor’s from Red lines are a better choice than Tort, I
don’t disagree, BUT Red’s are also harder to find (for me atleast) than a nice
Tort or nice Tort carrier.
The point is that Torted Tri’s have a place in a Tri program just
the same way Vienna Mark’s do in a BEW program. Would any of you BEW breeders
tell someone to cull all of their Vienna carriers? I don’t believe you would!"
http://www.2ndtrirabbitry.com/tri-color ... ement.html

It's based off mini rex, but genetics are genetics.

 

[Dood]

Only Duchess has the harlequin gene, Duke and Princess do not.

Harlequin is domimant to the non-extenseion gene that Duke and Princess carry.

If you breed Duke to Duchess about half the kits should be harlequin
If you breed Duke to Princess you won't get any harlequins

However, since Duchess has almost no bridling except for one thin ribbon of dark on her haunches, Duke could be a harlequin but you just cannot see the markings very well. If that is the case then when you breed Duke to Princess about half the kits should be harlequin, you'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Bad Habit]

You gotta watch out introducing tort to harlequins. When you are able to achieve it, you can get torted tri which considered ,if this were an accepted breed, a DQ because the color is incorrect

Harlequin isn't a colour with a COD in Lionheads.

 

[Jerryf]

I contacted the breeder.She has a small herd and keeps excellent records. The sire and dam of Duke, Duchess and Princess are both Harlequins! I attached pictures of them
So I am reading all the comments How can 2 harlequins have torts?

Queenie is from another breeder and she is not related to the other 3.

 

[Dood]

To be orange a rabbit only needs one agouti gene and one self - 'Aa' an to have the brindle pattern rabbits only need one harlequin gene and one tort gene - 'ej e', so if a kit gets a self and tort from his harli mom and a self and tort from his harli dad he will be a Tortoiseshell.

You can get torted harli's 'aa eje' as well and the different bands of orange and black look more sooty orange or brown and smoke grey.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

Please be aware that Harle and tort can be "co-recessive" and can show up together. Harle can also show up on the bodies of otters as well. That is why the non extension gene should be kept in its own lines and not introduced to other marked colours. Torted Tris are broken harles and the broken gene is a separate entity and does not affect the e series or it's inheritance in any way. Breeding tort to tort should eventually make that ej gene a little more scarce in your herd. Just watch the colour really closely on the kits before you put them into your program, especially on the belly area. Sometimes the harle gene is very blatant and sometimes its there but barely! Sorry I can't help with the mane gene issue and using a JW crossbred as I don't do Lionheads, but I think you have some very good looking Lionheads there!!