Right now I've got a pair that I've been told is "the worst of the very best" and 2 does (litter mates that other wise have no breeding records) that lack a little in type but have rare colors that the other doe carries and they have a better temperment. Now these are all I have to work with for a while and I need to get 3 generations away from the litter mate does. If Litter mates A and B each show up 2 times, the pedigree doe shows up 3 times, and the pedigree buck shows up 4 times... in a 4 generation pedigree is this to much of the same blood before out crossing. Keep in mind that the 2 litter mate does are from seperate lines and the pedigree pair are not closly related. These are mini lops BTW.
Line breeding, how much is to much?
- Thread starter rittert3
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What color are you working with?
SMR
Well-known member
I only keep the best out of a litter to use for line breeding. I do this with all the breeds I work with, and now I rarely add any new unless there is some thing I know I just cannot get any further with that trait with what I have. Adding new blood can cause so much trouble and unpredictable results health and confirmation wise. That being said, unless you cull very very hard and stick to your guns on first confirmation/size/temperament and THEN color it will come back to haunt you if you line breed for a long time. Breeding only for color can get you a barn full of pretty rabbits that aren't that much worth show wise. If you're not shooting for show rabbits though, then that's not as big of a concern maybe. I work with Tri color MR and they are a pain to find better ones and improve upon them because of this issue. There are some nice ones out there, but every one has their limitations....I can't travel far enough out and I don't have a pocket of money to spend on them either.
You can fix bad traits in like you can good traits....were they sold as breeding stock? Did you ask about line breeding them further? Do they even out each other's faults? You may want to add a good 'normal' color to either the buck or the doe and then use the best kid from that to breed on. IF in theory, you have good rabbits and are very hard on who you keep, you can line breed for many generations with out issues.
Raising better rabbits and cavies has a good line breeding example. On another mailing list I'm on, there was a guy that was line breeding, had been for some time. It took over 10 generations (can't remember the exact number but it was up there) before any negatives came up as a result of the line breeding itself...BUT there was strict culling involved and he started with sound rabbits that had no genetic or health issues.
You can fix bad traits in like you can good traits....were they sold as breeding stock? Did you ask about line breeding them further? Do they even out each other's faults? You may want to add a good 'normal' color to either the buck or the doe and then use the best kid from that to breed on. IF in theory, you have good rabbits and are very hard on who you keep, you can line breed for many generations with out issues.
Raising better rabbits and cavies has a good line breeding example. On another mailing list I'm on, there was a guy that was line breeding, had been for some time. It took over 10 generations (can't remember the exact number but it was up there) before any negatives came up as a result of the line breeding itself...BUT there was strict culling involved and he started with sound rabbits that had no genetic or health issues.
The 2 littermates are frosted, The pair are Broken (steel buck and blue steel doe) I really want smoke pearl but like you said color comes last. I'm pondering buying a smoke pearl buck from the same breeder but he's $430 with pedigree on the other hand he's in the top 2% of show mini lops nation wide.
Technically you could line breeding forever so long as you culled problems very strongly and only kept the best of the best. However for show purposes people are much less likely to buy a rabbit who has more than the odd sibling cross on it and especially if that's practically the only thing on it. You want to try to get parent child and half sibling crosses in there instead.
I would have to post the pedigree showing my planned breeding to show my real concerns. Most of it is using the same buck on 3 does for the next generation then crossing half sibling/cousins. I'm pondering a new buck this fall but his price is through the roof. He would deffinatly put me in a possition to make some real profit and build a respectable herd though.
Have you asked about stud services from the buck? I would imagine you would have to send your doe for a 30-day quarantine before chancing the buck on an outside doe, but it might be cheaper than buying the buck, and would still give you outside genetics.
The breeder is getting out now and I've been unable to contact him regaurding the pedigrees of my current but and the unrelated doe. I was considering studding him out myself to pay him off. He some how related to one of my does but is very high quality with lots of legs. They're asking 400 plus a $30 fee for his pedigree so I'm still at war with myself over weather or not to spend the money on him.<br /><br />__________ Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:40 pm __________<br /><br />opps guess I mentioned him twice lol
ottersatin
Well-known member
$430.00! Astonishing!
The Pedigree must be printed on gold leaf paper!
If you have that kind of cash to spend on Rabbits,
please come and see me! I am sure I can find you a Buck for,
oh lets say "Half that Price"?
i think you can find a new Buck that will help your breeding program
for just a bit less than that "FEE"!
Oh well, one man's Rose is another Man's Daisy,
and if you pay that much for a Buck
The Sun is gonna shine in that back yard!
Ottersatin.ldtimer:
The Pedigree must be printed on gold leaf paper!
If you have that kind of cash to spend on Rabbits,
please come and see me! I am sure I can find you a Buck for,
oh lets say "Half that Price"?
i think you can find a new Buck that will help your breeding program
for just a bit less than that "FEE"!
Oh well, one man's Rose is another Man's Daisy,
and if you pay that much for a Buck
The Sun is gonna shine in that back yard!
Ottersatin.
ldtimer:
I think this article will be very benifical to you http://www.thenaturetrail.com/rabbit-sales/magic-bunny/<br /><br />__________ Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:21 am __________<br /><br />Honestly, what this breeder is asking, I believe, is way to much. What is the name of the breeder? Many good Mini Lop breeders come to mind when I think of "top breeders". The Smoke Pearl buck I have currently is the best in my Rabbitry but I payed a reasonable price for him and there weren't "extra fees" for pedigree.He also came from wonderful lines. I think this breeder that your talking about has a strange way of going about things..
http://www.thenaturetrail.com/rabbit-sales/magic-bunny/<br /><br />__________ Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:21 am __________<br /><br />Honestly, what this breeder is asking, I believe, is way to much. What is the name of the breeder? Many good Mini Lop breeders come to mind when I think of "top breeders". The Smoke Pearl buck I have currently is the best in my Rabbitry but I payed a reasonable price for him and there weren't "extra fees" for pedigree.He also came from wonderful lines. I think this breeder that your talking about has a strange way of going about things..Well, I wasn't going to ask the name of the breeder, but that bunny must have solid gold fur for that price!
I am sorry, but that price is "way out of line" IMHO ... and like OtterSatin said, there are other breeders with bucks for sale that will contribute as much to your quality for a much more reasonable price.
I am sorry, but that price is "way out of line" IMHO ... and like OtterSatin said, there are other breeders with bucks for sale that will contribute as much to your quality for a much more reasonable price.
He's a national champion, but you're right 2 months ago I was saying I wouldn't spend over $30 on the best rabbit in the world. Rick Schmidt and his daughters bred him. They're from Lyndon Ks but said that they want all but a couple of their rabbits gone by nationals this year.<br /><br />__________ Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:07 am __________<br /><br />I just read the article... he had alot of 200 and $300 rabbits but I don't have alot of holes so I was thinking that stud could work in my favor especially if I could stud him out for $30+/ doe. I going to go to the ARBA nationals this fall (only 3 hrs away from me this year) and see what I can learn. I won't have any money to spend on one until 2 days before nationals anyway.
OneAcreFarm
Well-known member
rittert3":169s574b said:
No rabbit is worth $430...no matter how many legs or what have you....just because HE did well does not guarantee his offspring will do well. They are taking advantage of people with those prices....
MamaSheepdog
Well-known member
rittert3":2ei8lqis said:
$30 - $430 is a huge jump in your price range! :shock: As you can see by the shocked responses to his price tag, there are very few people that would even consider paying that for a rabbit. Even $100- $200 is out of reach for most rabbit fanciers.
What is his breeding record? Does he consistently throw good sized litters of healthy show quality kits from several different does? Keep in mind that it also depends on how compatible your does are to him- he is only half of the picture. Outstanding bucks are worth more in your operation than does because they can sire more litters than does can produce, but you don't have a huge group of does to breed to yet so are somewhat limited in the number of kits you can get from him anyway. You could perhaps get some money in stud fees, but that is a risky business because of venereal disease that may be present in outside does.
I paid $50 for my Rex, and they are good quality rabbits bred by a 25 year fancier and 15 year rabbit judge. They are not perfect, as no rabbit is, but I look forward to improving their faults. I have had them for a year now, and I have started showing so that I can learn to evaluate them properly- I feared starting with good rabbits and ruining them with my own ineptitude.
I think it is more fulfilling to start with modestly priced rabbits of good quality. Spending several hundred dollars on a titled animal is, to me, reminiscent of spending $30,000. on a "push button" hunter-jumper pony for a novice 10 year old child. I'm sorry if that sounds rather rude, but I couldn't think of a different analogy.
I fervently hope that there is not a trend toward asking those kinds of prices, and turning the rabbit show world into an economically biased hobby for our young fanciers.
Congratulations on the ownership of the rabbits you already have. Please post some pics, especially of the rare colored ones.
skysthelimit
Well-known member
I paid $65 for a just weaned buck, who died on me at 13wks old. He was very promising up until the time he died. I will never pay over $50 for a rabbit again. Lots of promise there, but they are very fragile creatures, too fragile to guarantee promises will be fulfilled, for any large sum of money. If there is one thing I've learned in dogs and rabbits, is you never really recoup teh money you spend on an animal.
I have to jump in here. I have good quality now. I didnt a year ago. I have paid the very little for new zealands.Yes they did produce but not what i wanted. SO i sold of them and started over. Now i am very proud of what i got. I also spend allot of money on the ones i got flown in . Now i am done.They cost allot more than my other ones and plus the flight ect. I can go a long way with these guys . I wouldnt pay that for one rabbit but maybe a trio plus your trip.
There is a saying ....You pay for what you get. In most case it is true . But also a big gamble. It really depends on you and how far you want to spend and go in the future. I know of a couple that spent 1500. on a show winning pair.
There is a saying ....You pay for what you get. In most case it is true . But also a big gamble. It really depends on you and how far you want to spend and go in the future. I know of a couple that spent 1500. on a show winning pair.
Hmm all this has me thinking... I would much rather pay less however from the 3 national competing breeders in my area they've all told me that anything with quality will run atleast $75-$100. Is it possible that my breed of choice has a little higher asking prices all around? I think I will keep talking to the breeders and stick with what I have until nationals. I may find something from out of state that I want there.
Bumper
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As others have said, I would advise being very careful about paying that much for a single rabbit. I paid $600 for a trio once. I discovered that the buck was 5 years old when I got his pedigree, one of the does developed a genital infection and I gave her away as a pet, and the other doe produced a nice kit for me that helped build my line. Overall was it worth it? I don't think so. The very nicest, most helpful rabbits I've ever owned were given to me free.
If you get some decent stock and breed and cull selectively, you can see improvement quickly. I do think that bringing in a high quality buck or doe can be helpful sometimes, but don't overdo it. There's no substitute for building your own line over time. Selection is everything, and you can improve a lot more quickly than you might think.
If you get some decent stock and breed and cull selectively, you can see improvement quickly. I do think that bringing in a high quality buck or doe can be helpful sometimes, but don't overdo it. There's no substitute for building your own line over time. Selection is everything, and you can improve a lot more quickly than you might think.
skysthelimit
Well-known member
rittert3":qu3l7ypi said:
Sometimes. Some breeds and colors are hard to find. I'd say red NZ are a bit hard to find. There are only ten rex breeders that I know of for show in Ohio. Still, you just gotta count the cost.
