Late breeding Q - Guinea Pigs - Split from thread on rabbits.

[Piper]

This is true for guinea pigs...She has to breed before 10 months old

Guinea pigs do not have to be bred by 10 months, they are the same as other female mammals. The only reason that I have found for calcification, is if there is an 'Metabolic disease'. True for humans or guinea pigs.
I just do an edit on an Wiki page and the next thing I see on RT, is this!
- from Wiki page, I do not think that I have to say where my edit starts.
I suspect that it will be edited for readability, soon.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinea_pig
Females that have never given birth may develop irreversible fusing of the pubic symphysis, a joint in the pelvis, due to calcification which may occur between 6 and 10 months of age.[74][49]:73 If they become pregnant after this has happened, the birth canal will not widen sufficiently; this may lead to dystocia and death as they attempt to give birth.[75] Calcification of the female's pubic symphysis (if not bred) is a common myth. The reason for potential calcification is an Metabolic disease, like Ochronosis. An healthy, normal female guinea pig's pubic symphysis does not calcify. [76] Females can become pregnant 6–48 hours after giving birth, but it is not healthy for a female to be thus constantly pregnant.[77]

 

[skysthelimit]

This is true for guinea pigs...She has to breed before 10 months old

Guinea pigs do not have to be bred by 10 months, they are the same as other female mammals. The only reason that I have found for calcification, is if there is an 'Metabolic disease'. True for humans or guinea pigs.
I just do an edit on an Wiki page and the next thing I see on RT, is this!
- from Wiki page, I do not think that I have to say where my edit starts.
I suspect that it will be edited for readability, soon.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinea_pig
Females that have never given birth may develop irreversible fusing of the pubic symphysis, a joint in the pelvis, due to calcification which may occur between 6 and 10 months of age.[74][49]:73 If they become pregnant after this has happened, the birth canal will not widen sufficiently; this may lead to dystocia and death as they attempt to give birth.[75] Calcification of the female's pubic symphysis (if not bred) is a common myth. The reason for potential calcification is an Metabolic disease, like Ochronosis. An healthy, normal female guinea pig's pubic symphysis does not calcify. [76] Females can become pregnant 6–48 hours after giving birth, but it is not healthy for a female to be thus constantly pregnant.[77]

Well this information is a source of conflict. Not that I have any vested interest in the correct answer, but it sure causes confusion Instead, it is recommended that boars enter a breeding program at five to six months old and sows at four months of age. It is recommended that if a sow is to be bred, her first breeding occurs before 7 months of age to prevent her pelvis from fusing making pregnancy dangerous for the sow ARBA Recommendation for the Care of Rabbits and Cavies http://www.arba.net/PDFs/CAW.pdf

 

[Piper]

Well this information is a source of conflict. Not that I have any vested interest in the correct answer, but it sure causes confusion Instead, it is recommended that boars enter a breeding program at five to six months old and sows at four months of age. It is recommended that if a sow is to be bred, her first breeding occurs before 7 months of age to prevent her pelvis from fusing making pregnancy dangerous for the sow ARBA Recommendation for the Care of Rabbits and Cavies http://www.arba.net/PDFs/CAW.pdf

- They need to update thier info, and it would help if they dates and cited thier information, too!
- Did all kinds of web searches and found this basic info in many sites, this one just puts in in layman's terms.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Guinea-Pigs- ... c-bone.htm
an exert, to read the whole article, go to the above link
"There's a great deal of misconception and misunderstanding about when a sow should be bred and the issue of "pelvic bones fusing". The pelvic bones do not fuse together. In fact they don't even touch one another.

Bones by themselves cannot move. What causes and allows the joints that connect the bones to move are ligaments and muscles. Without the ligaments the joints can't move. The pelvic bones of a sow can be easily felt by putting your finger right at the 'vent' or opening where the babies will come out. Normally they are fixed and are about 1/8th of an inch apart. They are stiff and unmoveable.

A few days prior to delivery those bones begin to spread apart as the ligaments pull them in preparation for delivery. They become flexible and moveable and are approximately 1/2 in apart. At that time you can almost get your finger between them and you can feel them move just a bit when touched. They almost feel as though they're floating, but they are connected to the ligaments. Those bones must be able to spread enough to allow a baby to pass through.""

__________ Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:45 pm __________

this is what I am finding too
"There was some reserach done into guinea pig pelvis fusing but this was done on male piggies (whose pelvis does fuse) and it was reported widely that all guineas have fused pelvis's after a year of age. This is not so."<br /><br />__________ Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:51 pm __________<br /><br />The sources that I have found that they cite, are old, and were done on male guinea pigs.
The one that I used was
http://www.rbej.com/content/1/1/113
^ "Guinea-pig interpubic joint (symphysis pubica) relaxation at parturition: Underlying cellular processes that resemble an inflammatory response". Reproductive Biology and Endocrinology 2003, 1:113 doi:10.1186/1477-7827-1-113. Retrieved 2012-10-21.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

either way if she isnt breed by 10 months old.. She will have problems.

 

[Piper]

this citation from 1996 does refer to fusion,
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=2119&page=73
but these are lab animals and from what I am picking up, in crusing the web,
some guinea pigs, may not be as healthy as others.
The wiki cite is from the 2000 edition of this book
http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0632033 ... e=&seller=
Diseases of Domestic Guinea Pigs [Paperback]
V. C. G. Richardson (Author)

 

[skysthelimit]

I know, I know that there is quite a bit of misinformation, and some of it comes from the very organization that we reference other information from. They should remove it and make sure it is updated. Causes too much confusion. In most species there is a higher incident of problems with older first time mothers.

 

[Piper]

guinea pigs can have http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dystocia
- which in chickens is called egg binding
- I would select for the guinea pigs that have easy births, like we do with rabbits.

skysthelimit
"They should remove it and make sure it is updated. Causes too much confusion. In most species there is a higher incident of problems with older first time mothers."

from what I am reading (in humans), the pelvic region
http://www.fitpregnancy.com/labor-deliv ... -pregnancy
"The pubic bone is the bony space right under your pubic hair. It’s actually a jointed area where the two halves of your pelvis come together at the symphysis pubis. Cartilage holds the two bones together. During pregnancy, hormones (relaxin) cause this cartilage to soften, allowing the pelvis to be more flexible. It makes sense. Your baby’s head settles down and eventually passes through your pelvis; you’re going to want a little “give.” "

- and humans can have calcification if there is a metibolic disease.
- what I take issue to, is the fact that they tag it "at breeding before a certain age", when you need to watch your breeders, because of this. The issue does not seem to stop at guinea pigs, though.

 

[skysthelimit]

The reference for guinea pigs is on the latest update 7/12 from the July 11, 2012 - USDA Clarification on proposed changes to Animal Welfare Act. I wonder where the ARBA is drawing their information.

 

[akane]

The source quoted for this info is outdated. It has since been proven wrong and the original scientist was not quoted accurately in the first place but it continues to spread. The bones do not fuse. The tendons and ligaments become tighter. That's the reason for an increased risk (note not impossibility) of birthing problems with age. Even the knowledgeable rescues will tell you the truth these days despite their love of propaganda.

 

[skysthelimit]

The source quoted for this info is outdated. It has since been proven wrong and the original scientist was not quoted accurately in the first place but it continues to spread. The bones do not fuse. The tendons and ligaments become tighter. That's the reason for an increased risk (note not impossibility) of birthing problems with age. Even the knowledgeable rescues will tell you the truth these days despite their love of propaganda.

My question is, since this information has been recently posted to district 8 website,I'm sure other districts as well, and recently referenced in regards to the APHIS and AWA issues, why are they still putting this out there?