Kit Colors

[Lindsay Krawsczyn]

So, this is the same litter I thought two of them might be blues earlier on. They’ve gotten bigger, and their colors are still very very confusing. The one looks to just be a self color black, but the other three have thrown me for a loop.

Their sire is a VM Self Black buck, their dam is some sort of Sable Point from what I’ve figured (althogh, whether she’s a marten or not I’m not sure. Given her genes she could even be a weird looking frosted).

I don’t know much about their sire’s ancestry, the grandsire was a rescue apparently and since he’s a BEW the breeder has zero clue what genes he has in there. I do however know there where three blues in the litter the sire of my litter came from, so the dilution genes are there at least on his side.

The dam I’ve been breeding with her line for a while, her parents both had non-extension. And I believe her sire was an otter tort based off things I noticed about him later on. I think she’s most likely genetically otter, given her having a daughter from a previous litter who looked to be an otter tort but I’m not really sure. I don’t recall any dilutes out of her line, but it could’ve been floating around in there I’d just never bred any of them to any other rabbits with dilute genes.


(2 & 3 are the ones I think might be some sort of blue. Not so much 2, but it’s fur did still come in grey when it fist started getting it and it was born pink not black. They’re all exactly a week old as of today.)






(This one I think may be double maned, both parents are single maned. I’ve had a double maned kit born before and its fur was similarly weird looking to me. Although, this one if white and the last one was self black so it’s a bit harder to tell as I don’t have the thing where the self black double maned looked a lot like a VM kit when it was born.)

 

[Alaska Satin]

So, this is the same litter I thought two of them might be blues earlier on. They’ve gotten bigger, and their colors are still very very confusing. The one looks to just be a self color black, but the other three have thrown me for a loop.

Their sire is a VM Self Black buck, their dam is some sort of Sable Point from what I’ve figured (althogh, whether she’s a marten or not I’m not sure. Given her genes she could even be a weird looking frosted).

I don’t know much about their sire’s ancestry, the grandsire was a rescue apparently and since he’s a BEW the breeder has zero clue what genes he has in there. I do however know there where three blues in the litter the sire of my litter came from, so the dilution genes are there at least on his side.

The dam I’ve been breeding with her line for a while, her parents both had non-extension. And I believe her sire was an otter tort based off things I noticed about him later on. I think she’s most likely genetically otter, given her having a daughter from a previous litter who looked to be an otter tort but I’m not really sure. I don’t recall any dilutes out of her line, but it could’ve been floating around in there I’d just never bred any of them to any other rabbits with dilute genes.

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(2 & 3 are the ones I think might be some sort of blue. Not so much 2, but it’s fur did still come in grey when it fist started getting it and it was born pink not black. They’re all exactly a week old as of today.)

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(This one I think may be double maned, both parents are single maned. I’ve had a double maned kit born before and its fur was similarly weird looking to me. Although, this one if white and the last one was self black so it’s a bit harder to tell as I don’t have the thing where the self black double maned looked a lot like a VM kit when it was born.)

Seeing that frosty-tipped appearance on 2 & 3, it looks to me like you're dealing with sable aka the shaded allele <c(chl)>, especially if the dam is a sable point. If she's a sable point marten, she'll have white inner ear linings, white jowl markings, and a white belly and undertail.

Sables are self rabbits with a sable allele in the dominant position, so <aaB_c(chl)_D_E_>, and they go through some amazing color phases. They start out looking like poorly colored blues, then go through a frosty phase like you're showing in the photos you posted, hit an almost chocolatey phase, then transition to the sepia/sable adult coloration. There's a developmental photo series here:
https://rabbittalk.com/threads/chinchilla-rex-at-last.36724/#post-355913

My suspicion is that 2 is a sable and 3 is a blue sable, aka smoke pearl. I don't think 4 is actually white. At first glance I might have said sable point, but I see distinct white ear linings and what appear to be the white jowl markings of an agouti or marten. Those in combination with sable could give you non-extension sable chin aka frosted pearl <A_B_c(chl)_D_ee> or sable point marten <a(t)_B_c(chl)_D_ee>. If the sire is truly a self black and the dam is a sable point or sable point marten, neither could "hide" an agouti <A>, so this kit would likely be sable point marten <a(t)_B_c(chl)_D_ee>.

 

[Lindsay Krawsczyn]

Seeing that frosty-tipped appearance on 2 & 3, it looks to me like you're dealing with sable aka the shaded allele <c(chl)>, especially if the dam is a sable point. If she's a sable point marten, she'll have white inner ear linings, white jowl markings, and a white belly and undertail.

Sables are self rabbits with a sable allele in the dominant position, so <aaB_c(chl)_D_E_>, and they go through some amazing color phases. They start out looking like poorly colored blues, then go through a frosty phase like you're showing in the photos you posted, hit an almost chocolatey phase, then transition to the sepia/sable adult coloration. There's a developmental photo series here:
https://rabbittalk.com/threads/chinchilla-rex-at-last.36724/#post-355913

My suspicion is that 2 is a sable and 3 is a blue sable, aka smoke pearl. I don't think 4 is actually white. At first glance I might have said sable point, but I see distinct white ear linings and what appear to be the white jowl markings of an agouti or marten. Those in combination with sable could give you non-extension sable chin aka frosted pearl <A_B_c(chl)_D_ee> or sable point marten <a(t)_B_c(chl)_D_ee>. If the sire is truly a self black and the dam is a sable point or sable point marten, neither could "hide" an agouti <A>, so this kit would likely be sable point marten <a(t)_B_c(chl)_D_ee>.

Thank you, this is very very helpful. I’m mostly sure style dam is a sable point marten as she’s given me a decent few I really think are otters. Thing is it’s a bit iffy as all the what I believe to be otters she’s given me have had non-extension so far, either sable point martens or otter torts. So, still waiting for her to give me a baby that’ll give me a definitive answer. Either an agouti or an otter, but at least I’ll be sure once she gives me one or the other

Also, it would be amazing if that kit turned out to be a smoke pearl honestly, because for one I’ve never actually had a rabbit of that coloration before and for two that would mean that my doe in fact has dilution. And, seen as that line is primarily just my strange little genetic experiments that’s pretty exciting to me. I’m starting to think at this point I’m just trying to breed up stranger and stranger colors with those ones.