just for kicks: colors=personalities??

[the reluctant farmer]

Something that's interesting to me, and thought I'd check in with y'all for the fun of it. I raise scrappy little meat mutts for our family, so have no idea what their genetic mix may be. Not worried about it and not tried to identify color genetics because it didn't seem to matter for meat mutts. But I've noticed something over the past few years: the various colors of meat mutts I get from my line tend to have the same personality characteristics. The first litter I had from Lil' Mama was all agoutis and one black; subsequent litters break down as below. Same buck each time.

Out of a litter of 8-9, I usually get 1-2 black, 2-3 tan, 1 brown with the black mask, and the rest brown agoutis. (Sorry folks, there are real names for these colors I suspect, but since they're mutts...I just didn't try.)

The tans (right) are laid-back, friendly, curious sorts but with a potential for a strong will. Tend to be the first to show up for food, first to see what's going on, first to sneak out if there is a breach in their cage. These are the ones who are likely to be "thumpers" when something ticks them off. Fun personalities. Fur tends to be "fluffy" as compared to everybody else. Have bred two, one who is currently in production. Both were good mothers, both had 8-9 babies like their mama each time.

The "mask" (middle; this one's lighter than usual) ones are friendly enough, but high strung and a bit neurotic. Scream about everything: breeding, perceived threat, the wind blew unexpectedly (well, maybe not that touchy, but seems like it sometimes.) The dog walks by while they're in an exercise pen, and this one will run in circles screaming while the tan one walks up to the wire and tries to sniff the dog. Have bred three at various points just to see color-wise what I'd end up with. One didn't take--culled her; second had 1 kit. One. Culled her. Third pulled fur and had a false pregnancy, then died in birth on the second attempt. Haven't bothered to breed any more of these because I'm not that curious about the potential kit offspring color. Seem more prone to weaker immune systems: one of the traits I breed for is ability to do well on a pelletless diet. These guys do ok, but seem pickier about what they eat, are prone to showing loss of condition faster, and just seem fussier. I was surprised the first time I saw one but now tend to sigh and wait for grow-out time.

Black ones: pretty, all tend to be quiet, shyer than the rest, seem to grow out a bit more slowly. (and as if to prove the point, it's hiding in the back left, sneaking treats from the pile while the rest plow in. Maybe the smaller grow out is because the rest are pushing them aside since they're so passive?) I have never kept any because one of the traits I breed for is heat resistance, and the black fur may make it harder for them to stay cool. Thick pelts of dense, shiny fur on these guys. Never bred any because they are beautiful but destined for freezer camp here.

And the rest. (example on the left.) All look like "wild" bunnies in color but most are laid-back, thrive on their diet, no fuss. Nothing that stands out as very negative, easy to mix them up with each other, would make good stock for what I am currently breeding for.

Now, these rabbits are a mix of who knows what, but they've worked well for my purposes. I didn't expect that big of personality differences from the siblings, and especially not based on their color of fur. When I noted it the first time, I thought it was individual personality traits. But after three years and multiple litters and consistent personality traits based on color, it's not just chance. Recessive traits that probably tie to some great-great-great grand's breed temperament? Anyone else notice this in their meat mutts?

 

[akane]

I haven't noticed a difference in rabbits. Maybe the difference between breeds is just too great to notice a little difference within a color of a breed and especially a color from related rabbits of a breed. Horses used to have a lot of stigma attached to certain colors. Everyone kept trying to say it was myth but some studies were done that found the color genes did impact neurotransmitters in the brain of gerbils. A very minor difference that should easily be overcome with handling and breeding good personalities but it was there. With chinchillas many breeders will tell you about the craziness of whites. I have 2 whites and they are a bit unique. They are not the ones you try to hold but are very interesting to watch. White is crossed with all sorts of other color lines so they are not uniquely bred. There is no difference except they are white. Chins have a lot of other things like size attached to certain colors as well. Maybe the color genes have a greater or lesser impact on different species of animals.

 

[Zass]

Lets start with genetics. Your colors are basically chestnut agouti(wild) and self black.

Both colors are sometimes modified from inheriting two recessive copies of the non-extension gene to create tort, your masked buns (self black with non-extension)
and fawn, or orange depending on whatever word you prefer (chestnut agouti with non-extension)

To put it plainly, the torts are modified blacks, and your fawns are modified chestnuts.

Hmm... I've never noticed a color linked personality difference, but...

I've had no luck with torts, but they have never been of my main mutt line either. I dunno, those torts out of the american line were the only does I haven't liked out of those americans...maybe because they were crossed with new zealand? The other was a mini rex and I-don't-know-what because she was out of rabbits found hopping around outside.

The main line is the self, steel, and agouti in black, chocolate, blue, and, lilac.

They are all equally a pain in the tail, or a delight, depending on luck of the draw. :lol:

My all time favorite was an opal (out of a lilac) Second to her is the purebred lilac doe and her lilac colored mutt daughter. They were all closely related, lilac colored rabbits born here later that were further genetically from that doe didn't please me as much.

I had a chestnut buck who wanted to be my boyfriend...and I just culled a different chestnut buckling for being crazy as a loon. (screamed when you went to pick him up, attacked an 8 week old doeling cagemate, etc. It's not a normal sort of crazy.)

Most of the chocolates have been cool...all except the one who was afraid of his own shadow.

I had two lynx set aside to trade to someone on here. The buckling was very docile and good natured. The doe was friendly, until she started her puberty and went psycho overnight. (I refused sale on that one)

The orange colored velveteen lop buck was the horniest rabbit ever, other than that he was as cuddly and nice as any velveteen.

 

[the reluctant farmer]

Thanks, Zass!

Lets start with genetics. Your colors are basically chestnut agouti(wild) and self black.

Both colors are sometimes modified from inheriting two recessive copies of the non-extension gene to create tort, your masked buns (self black with non-extension)
and fawn, or orange depending on whatever word you prefer (chestnut agouti with non-extension)

To put it plainly, the torts are modified blacks, and your fawns are modified chestnuts.

Now that I understand. And I would prefer to call them orange but they've been so pale I felt like I was cheating. Very interesting! Really appreciate you breaking it down in such an easy-to-follow, very simplified manner. I never bothered to look at the color genetics because I put that in my mind as being more of a show-rabbit trait, and in many ways it's easier for me to raise meat rabbits who are not very flashy nor really unique looking. :lol: But it did fascinate me that two chestnut agoutis would have a variety of colored kits, and that behavior/attitude seems to follow fur color with this crew. :shock: <br /><br /> __________ Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:35 pm __________ <br /><br />

I haven't noticed a difference in rabbits. Maybe the difference between breeds is just too great to notice a little difference within a color of a breed and especially a color from related rabbits of a breed.

I'm wondering if the personality differences I'm seeing and attributing to color really relate back to traits in the stock breed they come from. Your point is good: if all the rabbits are predominantly SF or FGs or whatever, they will still tend to act like SF's, or FGs, etc. But if you have some SF and FG and San Juan and who-knows-what-else, do the mixes just become a blend or do some express traits of the original breeds more than others? Because they are such an alphabet soup of breeding, could it be breed personality genetics? no way to know, but it's interesting to me. Hope that makes sense; I'm having a hard time putting it into words.

Horses used to have a lot of stigma attached to certain colors. Everyone kept trying to say it was myth but some studies were done that found the color genes did impact neurotransmitters in the brain of gerbils.

I would hear the same with mixed-breed cats: black cats often seemed to be very smart and "sneakier" than most other cats--they'd figure out what they wanted and how to get it before their people would, and weren't afraid to fight to get it ("alpha" personalities, though that's not how cats work), tabbies were generally good natured, and orange tabby males were sweet, loving babies, calicoes could be more high-strung but devoted if they bonded to you, etc. I have had many cats over the years so I see a basis in some of these urban legends, but I'm also not sure if I look for those traits. (we also tend to be rather...unique...people, so I sometimes think the animals who move in & thrive here see it as a good excuse to let their "inner freak" go.)

 

[Zinnia]

I love observational discussions.

I have noticed differences.

Blacks are slowest to grow, shy and sweet.

Chestnuts are outgoing and have a fairly good personality. Not the softest wool.

Female Chocolate based Fawns are moody and aggressive. I've had a number of them and keep waiting to save one that proves to be sweet. :roll:

Lilacs are quiet, shy and relatively easy going, but not sweet.

Sables are sweet.

Opals have been sweet, fast growing and usually have nicer wool.

My Steels have great wool and grow big quickly.

Chinchillas are sweet and grow very nicely.

REW are almost always the fastest growing and softest. Personality varies, but usually not shy.

That's what I see, anyway!

 

[katievictoria]

Could there be any difference in the ways the different colored rabbits are handled? For instance, if you have a secret preference for a certain color, could those of that cor be handled more, played with just a little more etc.?

Now with that said, I have to admit that I have sometimes wondered myself if different colors are related to different personalities. But I understand what someone said earlier about all NZ rabbits being just a little bit crazier, and that's all I raise. I have black, red (mostly fawn),brokens, and albinos (REW) (which throws a monkey wrench into the whole theory because we have no way to know, unless we look at their offspring, what color they might be as the albinoism is just a mask covering up every other color.) With cross breeding I've also had some chestnut agoutis. And I would have to agree with the exact personality descriptions that you describe.

I have three particular litters right now that show this theory very nicely. I have a black doe, bred to a black buck, which had a utter of 10, but lost one. Of the 9 left, 7 are black and 2 REW. I've noticed that when we all put our hands in the cage, it's the REW's we pick up first, probably just because they are different. The REW's are always at the feeder and growing much faster than the blacks.

Now another doe (REW bred to the Sam black buck) only had a litter of 5, with 4 REW's and one little black. Everyone picks up the black first. But surprise! He's still sheer and growing more slowly than the whites.

As for the third doe, she is raising 8, but lost a few of her litter. (Dont really know for sure, but possibly as many as 4.) She is a beautiful friendly fawn, bred to a chestnut buck. She now has 2 blacks, 3 fawns, and 3 REW's. When we go to the cage it's the little fawn babies that everyone wants to play with, with the blacks probably coming in second. But as the theory might expect..... the whites are the ones always in the feeder. They actually push the blacks out of the way. The try to push the fawns away too, but the fawns very gently stand their own ground and will sometimes push the whites right back. The poor little shy black ones always wait til everyone else is done, and then they eat, (unless I'm there and I intervene, but still the blacks will back off if the others come around.

Finally I would have to say that out of all my does, the fawn is the best mother. That is if you ignore that she threw the first few out of the cage! (They couldn't have fallen ou, because I have very close wiring about half way up the cage. The only way they could have been squeezed through the wiring was about 12 inches high or more in the pen. I found one on the ground, and 4 other little scratched places in the dirt where some others might have been and were lost to our barn cats.

__________ Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:27 pm __________

So I would actually like some research done on this. It IS very interesting, isn't it!

__________ Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:36 pm __________

BTW, this was my fawn's first litter, so a little craziness can be expected. And after she had those first few (?), it was over 24 hours before she started having the rest. I saved the one one the ground, and put it back in with her 7 new babies. So it's one of the 2 blacks. All that handling (sleeping with it under my shirt, etc.) didn't change it. It's just as shy as the other black, and now I can't tell the difference.

__________ Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:37 pm __________

BTW, this was my fawn's first litter, so a little craziness can be expected. And after she had those first few (?), it was over 24 hours before she started having the rest. I saved the one one the ground, and put it back in with her 7 new babies. So it's one of the 2 blacks. All that handling (sleeping with it under my shirt, etc.) didn't change it. It's just as shy as the other black, and now I can't tell the difference.

__________ Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:37 pm __________

BTW, this was my fawn's first litter, so a little craziness can be expected. And after she had those first few (?), it was over 24 hours before she started having the rest. I saved the one one the ground, and put it back in with her 7 new babies. So it's one of the 2 blacks. All that handling (sleeping with it under my shirt, etc.) didn't change it. It's just as shy as the other black, and now I can't tell the difference.

__________ Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:37 pm __________

BTW, this was my fawn's first litter, so a little craziness can be expected. And after she had those first few (?), it was over 24 hours before she started having the rest. I saved the one one the ground, and put it back in with her 7 new babies. So it's one of the 2 blacks. All that handling (sleeping with it under my shirt, etc.) didn't change it. It's just as shy as the other black, and now I can't tell the difference.

__________ Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:39 pm __________

BTW, this was my fawn's first litter, so a little craziness can be expected. And after she had those first few (?), it was over 24 hours before she started having the rest. I saved the one one the ground, and put it back in with her 7 new babies. So it's one of the 2 blacks. All that handling (sleeping with it under my shirt, etc.) didn't change it. It's just as shy as the other black, and now I can't tell the difference.

__________ Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:39 pm __________

So I would actually like some research done on this. It IS very interesting, isn't it!

__________ Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:39 pm __________

Could there be any difference in the ways the different colored rabbits are handled? For instance, if you have a secret preference for a certain color, could those of that cor be handled more, played with just a little more etc.?

Now with that said, I have to admit that I have sometimes wondered myself if different colors are related to different personalities. But I understand what someone said earlier about all NZ rabbits being just a little bit crazier, and that's all I raise. I have black, red (mostly fawn),brokens, and albinos (REW) (which throws a monkey wrench into the whole theory because we have no way to know, unless we look at their offspring, what color they might be as the albinoism is just a mask covering up every other color.) With cross breeding I've also had some chestnut agoutis. And I would have to agree with the exact personality descriptions that you describe.

I have three particular litters right now that show this theory very nicely. I have a black doe, bred to a black buck, which had a utter of 10, but lost one. Of the 9 left, 7 are black and 2 REW. I've noticed that when we all put our hands in the cage, it's the REW's we pick up first, probably just because they are different. The REW's are always at the feeder and growing much faster than the blacks.

Now another doe (REW bred to the Sam black buck) only had a litter of 5, with 4 REW's and one little black. Everyone picks up the black first. But surprise! He's still sheer and growing more slowly than the whites.

As for the third doe, she is raising 8, but lost a few of her litter. (Dont really know for sure, but possibly as many as 4.) She is a beautiful friendly fawn, bred to a chestnut buck. She now has 2 blacks, 3 fawns, and 3 REW's. When we go to the cage it's the little fawn babies that everyone wants to play with, with the blacks probably coming in second. But as the theory might expect..... the whites are the ones always in the feeder. They actually push the blacks out of the way. The try to push the fawns away too, but the fawns very gently stand their own ground and will sometimes push the whites right back. The poor little shy black ones always wait til everyone else is done, and then they eat, (unless I'm there and I intervene, but still the blacks will back off if the others come around.

Finally I would have to say that out of all my does, the fawn is the best mother. That is if you ignore that she threw the first few out of the cage! (They couldn't have fallen ou, because I have very close wiring about half way up the cage. The only way they could have been squeezed through the wiring was about 12 inches high or more in the pen. I found one on the ground, and 4 other little scratched places in the dirt where some others might have been and were lost to our barn cats. <br /><br /> __________ Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:46 pm __________ <br /><br /> Gee, I don't know how I did all that duplicating of my post. I'm sorry, and can't seem to edit it out.

 

[Zass]

I wonder...Perhaps there is a difference in the way litter mates treat EACH OTHER that may affect the personalities of mixed litters?
They might not see the colors all that well, but I'm positive that can at least distinguish light and dark.

I know my best growth has been...broken blue 1/2 velveteens. Blue is just black diluted.

The rew mutts in mixed litters never gained weight faster than any other meat mutt, but I'd have to say the fawns were my favorites and held most often, because fawn is easy on the eyes.

My all time best tempers? Broken black velveteens, and to date, the healthiest kits out of Mucky were all broken blacks. (Sushi, Igor, and Spot come to mind) The torts were the hardest to keep alive. There were always too few kits for me to ever suspect it was something more than coincidence though.

 

[the reluctant farmer]

Good theories. I think I treat them all the same, which is fairly hands-off, to be honest. I had the last crew in a small, open shed space (testing to see if I wanted to move towards colony raising), and I'd come in with food, sit, and observe. When the door opened I'd be greeted by a fawn, soon followed by one of the agoutis. When I sat down and watched, the fawn would come nosing up, sniffing and looking to see if I had more, and accepting a stroke on the head. The tort would get right in there to grab food, but was higher-strung than every one. If I shifted my feet she was highly likely to dash around or jump, which might get everyone else to scatter until they realized she was nuts. My little black would be the very last to come out of hiding. He'd come up to me once a path was clear, but tentatively and ready to run.

I do think the way they treat each other can reinforce personality traits. A bun that is "polite" and separated from his peers at 8 weeks may be a civil pet that isn't pushy or bossy but does become more self-confident when it gets all the food and attention. Left with its more assertive peers, it will get the leftovers that the others don't want, which may impact growth, and it will continue to have it reinforced that it's best to hide so you don't get run over by the super-assertives who charge forward, then come out when its quiet.

I do think they treat each other differently, but I suspect it's because of personality, (dominant vs. shy, likes to be with others vs. wants to do its own thing, timid vs. aggressive, always freaking out and almost giving you a heart attack so you just want to thump or bite the annoying party.) Their colors may just be a further expression of that personality. We humans have jokes and myths about "fiery redheads" who have bold personalities and quick tempers, "dumb blondes" who are pretty, fun, but not likely to be able to fight their way out of a wet paper bag without help, and "introspective brunettes" who are bright, bookish and calm. I think we can all find examples of people who definitely don't fit these stereotypes (although to be fair, Miss Clairol makes it harder to tell who is truly a blonde, brunette or redhead) but these myths started in some basis. It may haver originally been tribal and the traits one group of people exhibited (or were interpreted by others) also corresponded to the dominant genetic hair color of that group. I've had does that just didn't like one of my two bucks. but both were agoutis, and the difference I saw was smooth-talkin', confident older buck vs. over-eager, fumbling and bumbling young buck.

Anyhow, thanks for the input! It's something I will continue to watch and will be more vigilant about weights and feed consumption so I can see if it impacts market value as well as "cuddle factor". :lol:

 

[Zass]

I have seen where dogs can be triggered by pigment, some disliking darker colored dogs, and some disliking pale colored ones.

 

[TF3]

Just a couple thoughts (so far I see differences by breed more than colour, but I'm new ).
I would say ours get handled differently based on colour~ what appeals to my 9 year old will get far more attention!

In dogs there are definitely colour associated personalities within breeds~ Great Danes being a good example of variance in the colors, or poodles. In part because some colours are long standing and temperament has been worked on, where others are more focused on developing the colour over the temperament (ie Harlequin Danes were always crazypants LOL). And dogs definitely can develop a colour bias in relating to each other.