just for fun, silver fox and californian cross

ohiogoatgirl · Jul 30, 2015

because I am a genetic admirer and love the nestbox colors game

I wonder what yall think I will get from my future breedings.
*the doe(s) are chocolate pointed Californian.
*my buck is black silver fox who may carry one steel gene, I didn't get anything definitive from my mutt test breeding with my past rabbits. he is very good lines and full pedigree. I have to dig out his pedigree but I wanna say there was one white GG grandparent, two blues in there somewhere, and the rest blacks. and from what I saw of the breeders postings (he is all the way from maine) the breeder was pretty serious about breeding out steels. but was ok with whites but kept certain lines completely free of the lines that had whites come up.
*and I am undecided on keeping the best one of the three cali bucks. if I do it will probably be test round to see if the full cali litters did better than the cross litters. because I don't want two bucks when I only have one or two does!

so given what I know about genetics, which isn't anything great lol, I am guessing I can expect: himi, rew, black. unsure about anything else.

skysthelimit · Jul 31, 2015

The first cross between the SF and Cali will probably give you black. Then the fun begins, finding out if the SF carries white, and what the himi carries on the other side. Mine is from Cal/Sable breeding so he is Cal-Cal, with no white gene. Maybe you will get something interesting. As long as you are breeding these two together and the Cal is not a Shagouti, you will never see the Steel.

SG41. · Jun 10, 2023

I have a ruby eyed white with grey points that I crossed with a Silver fox buck. We got 1 solid black kit and 2 "liver"colored (greyish brown). Hope to see the silver develop on the black and the other two were a nice surprise. This is their first breeding.

Cal Gal · May 20, 2024

ohiogoatgirl said:
*the doe(s) are chocolate pointed Californian.
*my buck is black silver fox who may carry one steel gene, I didn't get anything definitive from my mutt test breeding with my past rabbits. he is very good lines and full pedigree. I have to dig out his pedigree but I wanna say there was one white GG grandparent, two blues in there somewhere, and the rest blacks. and from what I saw of the breeders postings (he is all the way from maine) the breeder was pretty serious about breeding out steels. but was ok with whites but kept certain lines completely free of the lines that had whites come up.
*and I am undecided on keeping the best one of the three cali bucks. if I do it will probably be test round to see if the full cali litters did better than the cross litters. because I don't want two bucks when I only have one or two does!

so given what I know about genetics, which isn't anything great lol, I am guessing I can expect: himi, rew, black. unsure about anything else.

My sister wants to breed her Silver Fox Buck with my Californian doe, I was wondering what colors you got @ohiogoatgirl

Dimplz · May 20, 2024

ohiogoatgirl said:
because I am a genetic admirer and love the nestbox colors game I wonder what yall think I will get from my future breedings.
*the doe(s) are chocolate pointed Californian.
*my buck is black silver fox who may carry one steel gene, I didn't get anything definitive from my mutt test breeding with my past rabbits. he is very good lines and full pedigree. I have to dig out his pedigree but I wanna say there was one white GG grandparent, two blues in there somewhere, and the rest blacks. and from what I saw of the breeders postings (he is all the way from maine) the breeder was pretty serious about breeding out steels. but was ok with whites but kept certain lines completely free of the lines that had whites come up.
*and I am undecided on keeping the best one of the three cali bucks. if I do it will probably be test round to see if the full cali litters did better than the cross litters. because I don't want two bucks when I only have one or two does!

so given what I know about genetics, which isn't anything great lol, I am guessing I can expect: himi, rew, black. unsure about anything else.

Chocolate Cali = aabbch_D_E_
Black Silver Fox = aaB_C_D_E_.

If both parents are homozygous on the pigment locus (SF=CC and Cali = chch) then the first litter will be all Cch, full pigment carrying himi pigment. All the kits will be black like the SF.

If the SF is Cc, you will see the solid blacks and himi. If the Cali is chc, you will see blacks, himi and albino.

On the extension locus, if either patent is a steel, you will never know. Since they are both solid patterns, the steel gene will compliment their black base. If you see any tortoise shading ìn the litter, both parents carry non-extension (_e). Same with dilute. If you see any diluted colors the parents are Dd.

I was talking to an old timer who raised purebred SFs for 60 years. We got on the topic of the steel gene and the silvering gene in the SF lines. Here is what he told me.

"Never breed the steel out of your SF lines. The perfect genotype for the SF is EsEs and Sisi2 or sisi."

He explained to me that the steel genes control the silvering genes, keeping the silvering genes in check. The silvering genes cause the dispersment of random white hairs and cause a silvery base undercoat. When the rabbit is a super steel, it darkens that base undercoat, causing a darker contrast between the black fur and the white hairs.

The steel gene has a purpose.

ohiogoatgirl · May 21, 2024

It was a while ago but I think I got all black (with minimal silvering) and a couple himi. From the Cali x SF. I bred two of the does back to the SF and got all black, some with almost no silvering and some with more but never nice like a purebred.