It's a new day, new kits, new colours coming.

[Mckatie]

I'm waiting for the fur to come in before I bombard this thread with a lot of new pictures. I have 2 new litters of pedigreed New Zealand kits.

1st litter CC Bloom possibly < aa Bb c(chd) c D_ ee)> & Velvet possibly <Aa Bb c(chl)c D_ E(S)e> (like her sister, Smokey.) 9 kits... 4 dark 1 lighter dark, 3 pink with orange heads lol (possible chocolate tort?)and 1 possible rew. At 2 days old this is obviously a suggestion of colours. A first time mother, she is getting more relaxed with me peeking into her next. Plus there's the bribe.
2nd litter...CC Bloom possibly < aa Bb c(chd) c D_ ee)> & Oreo delight a broken black possibly
<a a B _ C _ D _ E _ En en> litter of 8 - 1broken black, 1 possible Charlie, and 6 pinks - with differences in tint.. from rew to....? hopefully more frosted... Another first time mum.

Thoughts and inputs are always welcome! And appreciated!!!

Previous litters include
CC Bloom possibly < aa Bb c(chd) c D_ ee) & Chocolate Truffle possibly <Aa Bb c(chl)c D_ E(S)e> had a litter of 4 black, 1 chocolate, 2 REW . Chocolate Truffle is darker that Velvet and Smokey Jo so possibly steel seal?
CC Bloom possibly < aa Bb c(chd) c D_ ee)&Smokey <Aa Bb c(chl)c D_ E(S)e> litter of 7 - 1 chocolate, 2 rew, 4 frosties.

CC (NZ) with a Charlie broken black otter satin - 6 kits - all broken. 2 broken black, 3 broken torts and a broken harliquinized?

*************I will take pictures of the new kits at 1 week? Is that the earliest optimal time?

 

[judymac]

I will take pictures of the new kits at 1 week? Is that the earliest optimal time?

Personally, I like to compare newborn, 3 day, and then again when their eyes open at 10 days. By the third day, the hair emerges, and it tells a lot about the color. By 10 days, the eyes are open, so eye color becomes another clue; and the agouti patterning becomes visible, yet another clue.

 

[Mckatie]

Personally, I like to compare newborn, 3 day, and then again when their eyes open at 10 days. By the third day, the hair emerges, and it tells a lot about the color. By 10 days, the eyes are open, so eye color becomes another clue; and the agouti patterning becomes visible, yet another clue.

I might try that in the future. Velvet was very aggressive on the day they were born, and again on the second check (I pulled her out.) Today she was fine and ok with me checking out her babies; picking them up. Back to her usual sweet self. All of my does are first time mums. I give them leeway,letting them feel their way into balance. So far they have all been really well behaved minus Velvet's wee bit of sass.

Not all of my rabbits open their eyes on the 10th day. I've noticed that each litter has been a bit different on their timing. We are more likely to hit 14-16 days. My NZ/Satin litter at 2 weeks old consists of some kits with their eyes wide open, then a few only partial. They haven't tried to get out of their nest box either. Our weather here changes quite often with tonight dropping down to 5* after a unusual high of 45*(feels like 40*). We live over a mile high in altitude. We have high winds today and tomorrow as well. With more snow coming in. My rabbits live outside year around under a white tarp carport. Chocolatte and Poe actually appear to enjoy the snow. I often think that because my rabbits do not live in barns with lights, that their circadian rhythm is different due to their lack of artificial light.They definitely grew fluffier coats in the Smokey Jo/CC litter. It will be interesting to note all of the changes.

 

[Mckatie]

I'm waiting for the fur to come in before I bombard this thread with a lot of new pictures. I have 2 new litters of pedigreed New Zealand kits.

1st litter CC Bloom possibly < aa Bb c(chd) c D_ ee)> & Velvet possibly <Aa Bb c(chl)c D_ E(S)e> (like her sister, Smokey.) 9 kits... 4 dark 1 lighter dark, 3 pink with orange heads lol (possible chocolate tort?)and 1 possible rew. At 2 days old this is obviously a suggestion of colours. A first time mother, she is getting more relaxed with me peeking into her next. Plus there's the bribe.
2nd litter...CC Bloom possibly < aa Bb c(chd) c D_ ee)> & Oreo delight a broken black possibly
<a a B _ C _ D _ E _ En en> litter of 8 - 1broken black, 1 possible Charlie, and 6 pinks - with differences in tint.. from rew to....? hopefully more frosted... Another first time mum.View attachment 39945

Thoughts and inputs are always welcome! And appreciated!!!

Previous litters include
CC Bloom possibly < aa Bb c(chd) c D_ ee) & Chocolate Truffle possibly <Aa Bb c(chl)c D_ E(S)e> had a litter of 4 black, 1 chocolate, 2 REW . Chocolate Truffle is darker that Velvet and Smokey Jo so possibly steel seal?
CC Bloom possibly < aa Bb c(chd) c D_ ee)&Smokey <Aa Bb c(chl)c D_ E(S)e> litter of 7 - 1 chocolate, 2 rew, 4 frosties.

CC (NZ) with a Charlie broken black otter satin - 6 kits - all broken. 2 broken black, 3 broken torts and a broken harliquinized?

*************I will take pictures of the new kits at 1 week? Is that the earliest optimal time?

A kit from the Oreo litter at 3 days old. It was very squiggly.There are 3 of this colour.

 

[Alaska Satin]

A kit from the Oreo litter at 3 days old. It was very squiggly.There are 3 of this colour.

Thanks for the update!

That's lookin' pretty sable-y. It's so distinctly blue on my screen as to suggest smoke pearl (dilute sable aaB_c(chl)_ddE_), but even full-color sables do look blue for a while; time will tell!

Here's a newborn sable (full color, not smoke pearl), on the bottom of the pic:

but by about a week the sable color looks like this:

 

[Mckatie]

Thanks for the update!

That's lookin' pretty sable-y. It's so distinctly blue on my screen as to suggest smoke pearl (dilute sable aaB_c(chl)_ddE_), but even full-color sables do look blue for a while; time will tell!

Here's a newborn sable (full color, not smoke pearl), on the bottom of the pic:
View attachment 40034
but by about a week the sable color looks like this:

Thank you @Alaska Satin

They do look a bit like the bottom kit... more shimmery than the white looking kits. I took pictures of the whole litter but they came out foggy. Also there was one that looked different like a very light broken, but I think it turned into a smoked pearl. Mum's better, but still getting in my way. I find it easier to just take one by one out. Except I forgot my flashlight. I will take more of the whole litter soon.
In my Velvet/CC litter 3 are reddish, 5 most likely black and 1 possible rew or frostie... can't remember the ears..leaning towards rew.I will see if I can add them from my phone in a minute.


In the NZ/Satin litter, thanks to your assistance; I discovered one of the broken black is actually a broken black otter. I saw the tan on the ears, around the mouth...

 

[eco2pia]

That's lookin' pretty sable-y. It's so distinctly blue on my screen as to suggest smoke pearl (dilute sable aaB_c(chl)_ddE_), but even full-color sables do look blue for a while; time will tell!

What would the lilac or chocolate based version of smoke pearl be called? I got a kit that color once but it seemed less blue and more oatmeal beige, but it unfortunately did not survive. Came from a chinchilla colored buck who carried REW, and a chocolate chinchilla doe with no pedigree. I didn't understand how I could have gotten chocolate based anything out of a buck who should have been <BB> but maybe it was just a regular full color sable, and mom carried sable? It only made it about 3-5 days.

 

[Mckatie]

What would the lilac or chocolate based version of smoke pearl be called? I got a kit that color once but it seemed less blue and more oatmeal beige, but it unfortunately did not survive. Came from a chinchilla colored buck who carried REW, and a chocolate chinchilla doe with no pedigree. I didn't understand how I could have gotten chocolate based anything out of a buck who should have been <BB> but maybe it was just a regular full color sable, and mom carried sable? It only made it about 3-5 days.

I thought a few of mine looked oatmeal beige . From the velvet/cc litter

 

[Alaska Satin]

What would the lilac or chocolate based version of smoke pearl be called? I got a kit that color once but it seemed less blue and more oatmeal beige, but it unfortunately did not survive. Came from a chinchilla colored buck who carried REW, and a chocolate chinchilla doe with no pedigree. I didn't understand how I could have gotten chocolate based anything out of a buck who should have been <BB> but maybe it was just a regular full color sable, and mom carried sable? It only made it about 3-5 days.

The sables I've had start out looking like very pale blues, then become chocolatey, but mine didn't get to the latter shade until after a week or more - like the broken pictured above, and these 2-week-olds:

So yours could have been sables; I have noticed there is wide variation among sables in both color development and in final color.

Smoke pearl is a dilute (aka "blue") sable. Chocolate-based sable is called just that, chocolate sable, while lilac-based sable is usually called lilac pearl (the "pearl" again being a reference to the dilute effect). I've never had either chocolate or lilac sables, though, so I can't say what they look like as newborns.

Here's a wonderful page that has images of all the sable variations, including many kit pics:
https://www.gbfarm.org/rabbit/holland-colors-shaded.shtml

I thought a few of mine looked oatmeal beige . From the velvet/cc litter

Those look like fawns and/or torts on my screen. If they're fawns, they'll have light bellies and may have light-colored "swoops" along their flanks, like you can see on these red and chestnut Mini Rex:


But if they're torts, they won't have light "swoops" or bellies. Rather their bellies will be basically the same color as the body, and flanks may be slightly darker, like this tort Satin (deeper color due to satinization):

 

[Mckatie]

The sables I've had start out looking like very pale blues, then become chocolatey, but mine didn't get to the latter shade until after a week or more - like the broken pictured above, and these 2-week-olds:
View attachment 40044
So yours could have been sables; I have noticed there is wide variation among sables in both color development and in final color.

Smoke pearl is a dilute (aka "blue") sable. Chocolate-based sable is called just that, chocolate sable, while lilac-based sable is usually called lilac pearl (the "pearl" again being a reference to the dilute effect). I've never had either chocolate or lilac sables, though, so I can't say what they look like as newborns.

Here's a wonderful page that has images of all the sable variations, including many kit pics:
https://www.gbfarm.org/rabbit/holland-colors-shaded.shtml


Those look like fawns and/or torts on my screen. If they're fawns, they'll have light bellies and may have light-colored "swoops" along their flanks, like you can see on these red and chestnut Mini Rex:
View attachment 40049View attachment 40050View attachment 40048

But if they're torts, they won't have light "swoops" or bellies. Rather their bellies will be basically the same color as the body, and flanks may be slightly darker, like this tort Satin (deeper color due to satinization):
View attachment 40047

Thank you. They don't really have Fawn in Nz. Although,they do look fawn to me as well. I will have to checkout their bellies. I feel that the NZ recognized colours rew,black,blue,red and broken throws such a broad range under each colour umbrella. I like the tort Satin. So beautiful!

 

[Alaska Satin]

Thank you. They don't really have Fawn in Nz. Although,they do look fawn to me as well. I will have to checkout their bellies. I feel that the NZ recognized colours rew,black,blue,red and broken throws such a broad range under each colour umbrella.

Fawn isn't recognized in the ARBA NZ standard, but you certainly see them. When you cross reds and a blues, that's one of the things you'll eventually get (basically, a dilute red). NZs aren't recognized in tort, steel or sable either, but you've apparently got those as well.

Thank you. They don't really have Fawn in Nz. Although,they do look fawn to me as well. I will have to checkout their bellies. I feel that the NZ recognized colours rew,black,blue,red and broken throws such a broad range under each colour umbrella. I like the tort Satin. So beautiful!

Yes, isn't that a gorgeous color!?! It drives me a little crazy that they don't recognize more colors in the Satin standard, because every color looks better in satin. (I'll admit I might be a little biased.)

 

[Mckatie]

Fawn isn't recognized in the ARBA NZ standard, but you certainly see them. When you cross reds and a blues, that's one of the things you'll eventually get (basically, a dilute red). NZs aren't recognized in tort, steel or sable either, but you've apparently got those as well.


Yes, isn't that a gorgeous color!?! It drives me a little crazy that they don't recognize more colors in the Satin standard, because every color looks better in satin. (I'll admit I might be a little biased.)

Haha.. I get a lot of colours that are not recognized ,but they sure are pretty. This original line was bred strictly for the meat pen. They sweep the shows. Even a judge commented on judging the groups.

I do love the satins. Especially the deeper colours. I will say that Charlie threw some beautifully colored kits even if they are crossed. The 3 look like triplets and would make a good trio. I'm learning to put them in a container to corral them. I will have to buy a couple new cat litter boxes at the 1.25 to replace that one which I threw away.

 

[Mckatie]

The 2 broken from Oreo. They did not appreciate the cooler air out of the nest. Very squiggly. The smoked pearls are getting darker. I will take updated shots tomorrow.

 

[Mckatie]

Thanks for the update!

That's lookin' pretty sable-y. It's so distinctly blue on my screen as to suggest smoke pearl (dilute sable aaB_c(chl)_ddE_), but even full-color sables do look blue for a while; time will tell!

Here's a newborn sable (full color, not smoke pearl), on the bottom of the pic:
View attachment 40034
but by about a week the sable color looks like

CC & Oreo litter 1 week old

 

[Mckatie]

 

[Tinytailsrabbits]

OMGOSH! They are so beautiful! I have 2 litters on the way. I usually get some pretty colors but never any brokens, fawns, or smoky pearl! I will share some pictures if I remember!

 

[Mckatie]

OMGOSH! They are so beautiful! I have 2 litters on the way. I usually get some pretty colors but never any brokens, fawns, or smoky pearl! I will share some pictures if I remember!

Thank you! I'm looking forward to seeing your litters.
Oreo (broken black)had a good litter. 2 broken,2 frosties, 2 smoke pearls and 2 rew. The 2 blacks are fosters from Chocolate Truffle's litter who had 5 white, 6 blacks and I think a chocolate (I was hoping for blue). Velvet had the 3 red(fawn),1rew, 5 black. Smokey Jo's are 7 weeks old now. She had 2 rew,4 frosties and a chocolate. Charlie had all brokens. But she's a charlie. I find every litter exciting. We never know what colour we will get and they are all so stinking cute! When are your litters due? I think I have 1 more possibility...then probably no more for a few months. Will see how it goes. All my NZ does took. But then the 2 rexs and Blue satin aren't bred. Maybe later in the Spring ..

 

[Tinytailsrabbits]

Thank you! I'm looking forward to seeing your litters.
Oreo (broken black)had a good litter. 2 broken,2 frosties, 2 smoke pearls and 2 rew. The 2 blacks are fosters from Chocolate Truffle's litter who had 5 white, 6 blacks and I think a chocolate (I was hoping for blue). Velvet had the 3 red(fawn),1rew, 5 black. Smokey Jo's are 7 weeks old now. She had 2 rew,4 frosties and a chocolate. Charlie had all brokens. But she's a charlie. I find every litter exciting. We never know what colour we will get and they are all so stinking cute! When are your litters due? I think I have 1 more possibility...then probably no more for a few months. Will see how it goes. All my NZ does took. But then the 2 rexs and Blue satin aren't bred. Maybe later in the Spring ..View attachment 40337

Aww! So cute!

They are due on Sunday I think. Adding nests in today.

 

[Mckatie]

Aww! So cute!

They are due on Sunday I think. Adding nests in today.

So fun and exciting! Let us know what they look like down the week.

 

[Tinytailsrabbits]

They were due today. Here they are! One had 7, the other had 5