I wasn't trying to toss stones ..I said animals are food and I believe in animals treated humanely till they are butchered for meat or whatever purposes. I was talking about factory farming like for example a cows uterus falls out and its shoved back in instead of ending its suffering ..those kinds of things. I DON'T THINK there is anything wrong with raising livestock but I not imposing my beliefs on anyone think all living things deserve some form of respect before wit is killed to sustain me. I don't think I'm a nut for thinking that way or thinking its wrong to perform acts of cruelty on living creatures. Cruelty as in torturing not butchering for food. I DO NOT think anyone 9n here tortures rabbits or animals or is wrong for raising animals as food. I eat meat! I hope explained myself better this time. Thank you.
It was going well and then... she mentioned ....
- Thread starter ladysown
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alch0my":1atq12ff said:
This is the part of your statement that needs sources. It is a very serious allegation and unless you have sources, you should not be posting this. "Something I heard about factory farming" - as you say in a later post is just not good enough.
Animal welfare rules are very stringent in Europe. And as Jack points out, most rabbits in China, the largest producers, are not factory farmed. What may be true of factory farming of some animals does not apply to rabbits. Abuses would be a rare exception to standard practices. So please do not make it sound as though commercial rabbitries are abusing their animals.
Im not saying commercial rabbitries are abusing there animals. Im talking about some places in China and I read about it online somewhere and seen some things on tv. I did not say every single place that raises rabbits or animals is abusing their animals. Why is everyone so upset when I mentioned some pllaces over seas don't do it humanely. I don't understand. I just said there is nothing wrong with raising animals for food or other purposes commercially or private farming. The only thing I said that was wrong is I should of implied some places the workers can be cruel and I didn't mean to imply all places. I was talking about places where there had been undercover footage of it. I feel like I am walking on egg shells. Commercial rabbitries treat their animals good.
alch0my":3hnfz9ty said:
I'm almost offended by that one! :lol: Just kidding
___________________
As for the topic (now when I've read back a bit).. : Very well written e-mail. I would probably not say that much, more of a ''I'm sorry, the rabbit found another home." or some other excuse.. but tha's because I'd be nervous.
I think it's a good idea to play it safe and drive around shopping or something if you ever meet someone with those conditions..
Jack":qnu83hxu said:
Their defintion as a 'small family farm' is VERY different than mine...
From - http://world-rabbit-science.com/WRSA-Pr ... t/M-Wu.pdf
AND any rabbits intended for export must be shipped to distant processing plants for rendering.
Googling 'china rabbit farm' will provide plenty of graphic images and video of animals being slaughter and not in a humane way by Western standards.
AlchOmy, I am upset because you implied that commercial rabbitries do not raise or slaughter their animals humanely. Then you backpedal and say, well not rabbits, but other animals. Then you backpedal harder and say not in North America but overseas. You cannot make vague insinuations of this type and not post sources. Not on RabbitTalk. It just feeds the irresponsible ARA types.
You say "I read about it online somewhere". Likely it was an ARA blurb. Don't believe everything you read.
In any case, we have taken this thread way off topic. My apologies to Ladysown and other posters, but I did feel it was important to clarify this issue. I now return you to our scheduled topic.
You say "I read about it online somewhere". Likely it was an ARA blurb. Don't believe everything you read.
In any case, we have taken this thread way off topic. My apologies to Ladysown and other posters, but I did feel it was important to clarify this issue. I now return you to our scheduled topic.
Alch0my
look up ugly american (or ask Zab...)
MOST of of what you think you know... is lies or more correctly, half truths or 'surface' truths
wanna see someone get all SORTS of out of shape, ask Zab what Europeans think of WIRE cage bottoms (and it's funny, cause what they do, over here would be considered 'cruel'
there isn't a single answer, an when you start to think there is you run INTO this: Assume
Ass*U*Me
So, cite your source, if you can't...
please realize this is a site dedicated to the WHOLE rabbit community, including those eat their rabbits (a MUCH better thing than just throwing them away)
and we even have pet owners, the ONE common thing about this site is the respect, I respect the pet owner who seems to think that a rabbit is a person (even if I find this a sign of mental illness) as long as they respect that I'm about trying to breed the perfect rabbit
look up ugly american (or ask Zab...)
MOST of of what you think you know... is lies or more correctly, half truths or 'surface' truths
wanna see someone get all SORTS of out of shape, ask Zab what Europeans think of WIRE cage bottoms (and it's funny, cause what they do, over here would be considered 'cruel'
there isn't a single answer, an when you start to think there is you run INTO this: Assume
Ass*U*Me
So, cite your source, if you can't...
please realize this is a site dedicated to the WHOLE rabbit community, including those eat their rabbits (a MUCH better thing than just throwing them away)
and we even have pet owners, the ONE common thing about this site is the respect, I respect the pet owner who seems to think that a rabbit is a person (even if I find this a sign of mental illness) as long as they respect that I'm about trying to breed the perfect rabbit
Ok. Im sorry ..it was wrong of me to post those kinds of things. Sorry for offending everyone. Really didn't mean to. I really wasn't trying to back pedal either ..just posting different things ive seen on t.v. and read about. Was childish to post accusations without asking about it first.
tailwagging
Well-known member
alch0my":2bn0e0rg said:
A cow can live very well after a prolapse uterus.
first you wash it, making sure it is clean and wrap it in gaze,slowly push it back in and pull the gaze back out. the cow may never prolapse again.
now if I were a cow I would like that chance to live, rather then killed with out a chance.
Don't feel too bad, AlchOmy. Years ago, when I was new to rabbits, I made a similar assumption on another forum. The tongue-lashing from a commercial rabbit raiser that I took as a result was brutal. But when I did some more research, I found that she was correct and I was right out of line. Kind of makes you careful, an experience like that. In the long run, it's a good thing.
Part of the problem is that the ARA propaganda is very persuasive and stated with such assurance that it takes a lot of skepticism not to buy into it.
Part of the problem is that the ARA propaganda is very persuasive and stated with such assurance that it takes a lot of skepticism not to buy into it.
Jack":39ezhr3e said:
Sorry for continuing the off topic-ness but I think I need some explanation.
"look up ugly american (or ask Zab..) <-- what does that mean? I get the ''ask Zab'' part, but I don't quite understand the ugly american part.. :?
What is it that we do that you'd concider cruel? Apart from my neglect in nailtrimming giving Kori sore hocks, but that's hardly the rest of europes fault or standards. Not saying that we do't have any stupid ideas because I'm sure we do, but I wonder what you're thinking about? Is it the "solid bottom + bedding = unsanitary" idea you're referring too, or is it something else?
I can certainly agree that I've re-evaluated several ''truths'' about rabbit raising and right and wrongs this past year. While I don't prefer everything 'your' way, I've come to an understanding that it doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong or evil by default.
I agree to the mutual respect part. That's what makes this forum so good
No, the difference between the wire floor (and clean even if hard on the feet) vs. the British (and I think most European PET rabbits) of a solid floor (even if dirty)
US says my rabbit is fine and clean, Brit says my rabbit is fine and clean, and both say to the other BUT...
Ugly American (tourist) who seems to think they know everything (stereotype, ugly in attitude, not looks)
US says my rabbit is fine and clean, Brit says my rabbit is fine and clean, and both say to the other BUT...
Ugly American (tourist) who seems to think they know everything (stereotype, ugly in attitude, not looks)
DogCatMom
Well-known member
ladysown":th1coehs said:oh what a snake should eat?
That I know the answer to....
"either a meat kibble (as that's what snakes in need of rescue can have given to them) OR rats and mice, or when they get really big you should give them pigs ...but not pot bellied pigs"
That's off the pet rabbit boards.
Yes...I challenged that.
Just joined this forum tonight.
There's a rabbit rescue here in the small town where I live that also rescues/rehomes (get ready...) cavies, guinea pigs, hamsters, rats, and mice. Two weeks ago, I was looking at a "French Angora" they said they had who was bonded to a very odd-looking Lion Head. One of the young women there that afternoon (two were in middle school, this one might have been 20 y.o.) said that she had been at the Reptile Vivarium a few miles away where there were "baby bunnies" to feed to snakes. "Ewwww!" went the middle schoolers.
I kept brushing Mr. Angora and said nothing. She continued: "My boyfriend and I found a baby bunny and I put it real quick into my sweatshirt and we just kept walking." :? I asked, "Was it alive?" (I thought it was a reasonable question.) "Of course it was alive!" she said, indignantly.
"OK," (skipping over the theft aspect of things and getting where I really wanted to go) "what should snakes eat? I'm pretty sure that in the wild they eat mice, voles, and maybe rats when they find them." All three young women visibly shuddered. None of the three had an answer for how snakes should stay alive.
Kyle@theWintertime
Well-known member
You know, someone just got on my case the other day...I have had a few rabbit kits who couldn't nurse and rather than let them suffer and starve, I culled them. Since they had a genetic problem and no diseases or parasites...I popped their bodies in the freezer and the next time I saw a friend who keeps snakes, I gave them to her. I have another one right now, I'm dropping it off tonight. Someone said that was "cruel."
The kits were going to die anyways...it was a choice between a slow, horrible, sad death or a quick euthanasia. I can't even imagine starving an animal to death. Once they've been dispatched...it's somehow less cruel to throw them away than give them to someone who can at least make use of them??? WHAAAA??? :roll:
I wonder how they'd feel if they had to go watch beef cattle or swine get slaughtered. Unless they're all VEGANS, something died for their food. In fact vegan choices can also lead to animal death, as I recently learned...nothing in this world is free.
Wish more people were focused on humane care and humane slaughter rather than just pretending it doesn't happen, thus allowing cruelty to bloom behind closed doors.
I'll get off my soapbox now, LOL!!!!!!!
The kits were going to die anyways...it was a choice between a slow, horrible, sad death or a quick euthanasia. I can't even imagine starving an animal to death. Once they've been dispatched...it's somehow less cruel to throw them away than give them to someone who can at least make use of them??? WHAAAA??? :roll:
I wonder how they'd feel if they had to go watch beef cattle or swine get slaughtered. Unless they're all VEGANS, something died for their food. In fact vegan choices can also lead to animal death, as I recently learned...nothing in this world is free.
Wish more people were focused on humane care and humane slaughter rather than just pretending it doesn't happen, thus allowing cruelty to bloom behind closed doors.
I'll get off my soapbox now, LOL!!!!!!!
This is where it comes in useful to not live where the rabbits are kept. Most of the year I can pick them up where they live, drive them to where we live, leave them in the enclosed truck bed overnight and meet the person the next day. They never know where my rabbits are and they don't even come up to our condo to see our house rabbit and other pets either.
I had a guy saying he wanted snake food but he couldn't tell me size or amount. He just wanted to come out. He kept assuring me he would buy some if I just let him come see. I blocked him. I've let large buyers out to the stable before but only when I was sure they were show or meat buyers who usually commented on how nice my place was. Mysterious buyers like that I'm not even going to bring rabbits to them. Especially when snake food is mentioned since that's one of the sorest topics with the AR folks.
I had a guy saying he wanted snake food but he couldn't tell me size or amount. He just wanted to come out. He kept assuring me he would buy some if I just let him come see. I blocked him. I've let large buyers out to the stable before but only when I was sure they were show or meat buyers who usually commented on how nice my place was. Mysterious buyers like that I'm not even going to bring rabbits to them. Especially when snake food is mentioned since that's one of the sorest topics with the AR folks.
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Wow. :?DogCatMom":1ue3nvqu said:
This is what happens when people get disconnected from the real world, and learn to react only emotionally, rather than thoughtfully.
Kyle@theWintertime
Well-known member
Excellent way to describe the way people react. Perfect to a T.
Flemishstar
Well-known member
Kyle@theHeathertoft":363koimj said:You know, someone just got on my case the other day...I have had a few rabbit kits who couldn't nurse and rather than let them suffer and starve, I culled them. Since they had a genetic problem and no diseases or parasites...I popped their bodies in the freezer and the next time I saw a friend who keeps snakes, I gave them to her. I have another one right now, I'm dropping it off tonight. Someone said that was "cruel."
The kits were going to die anyways...it was a choice between a slow, horrible, sad death or a quick euthanasia. I can't even imagine starving an animal to death. Once they've been dispatched...it's somehow less cruel to throw them away than give them to someone who can at least make use of them??? WHAAAA??? :roll:
I wonder how they'd feel if they had to go watch beef cattle or swine get slaughtered. Unless they're all VEGANS, something died for their food. In fact vegan choices can also lead to animal death, as I recently learned...nothing in this world is free.
Wish more people were focused on humane care and humane slaughter rather than just pretending it doesn't happen, thus allowing cruelty to bloom behind closed doors.
I'll get off my soapbox now, LOL!!!!!!!
Very well said RJ. I think instead of erasing meat for food, ALL would benefit if we focused on adequite housing for animals, humane healthy breeding conditions and sanitary, humane and appropriate processing of the animals, I feel worse when I see, lets say for example, a battery hen, all crammed into a tiny 2x2 ft cage with 6 other chickens, featherless with bulging abcesses on their eyes stepping over another cage mates dead body to lay an egg, rather than a healthy one used at 4 months for snake food....
i haven't read through all the emails on this post...but I wanted to give up date.
Spring (now called "hope springs mitasu" or something like that)... is a much beloved pet of that original person. We met in a parking lot in Toronto. We spent the day in Toronto at the science centre I think. She thinks I raise the most wonderful animals.
Spring (now called "hope springs mitasu" or something like that)... is a much beloved pet of that original person. We met in a parking lot in Toronto. We spent the day in Toronto at the science centre I think. She thinks I raise the most wonderful animals.
That's good to know she didn't end up being a crazy! I still would have backed at the whole 'I work at shelter so I'll just find her a new home...' Thing, but I'm glad it turned out well for you.
