Is this typical look for this cross? Lion Lop

[WhWRabbitry]

I realize there are going to be great variations in how Lionhead/Holland Lop kits are going to look with the mix of breeds. But I keep seeing Netherland Dwarf kits that seem to look very much like this Lion Lop of mine. Am I right? Then today I was reading that both Lionheads and Hollands have Netherland Dwarf in their ancestry (I believe). Just curious if this look is more Netherland Dwarf than normal. The Momma is a black purebred Holland and the Dad a chesnut Lionhead.
I really like it. I think it's adorable.

 

[Bad Habit]

That's what, 3wks old? 4wks old?

It's probably gotten the dwarf gene, which is why it resembles a ND. It seems to have the short stubby face and teeny little ears that are often found in dwarf rabbits. Is this your first Lionhead x Holland litter?

 

[Miss M]

Whatever it is, it's terribly, horribly, wonderfully adorable!

 

[Dood]

I agree this kit is likely a dwarf. Show quality Hollands and Lionheads usually have the gene and those without don't usually match the SOP. If you got any peanuts in the litter then both parents carry the dwarf gene.

Now a days Hollands have even more apple like heads than Netherlands and they are working on making the Lionhead skull rounder as well (although there are quite a few with very streamlined profiles on my area) so I am not surprised you got a kit that looks like a ND from your doe and buck

The Lionlop breed is in development and as a breeder of Lionlops who do have a mane and nicely lopped ears I don't know if I'd call this kit a "Lionlop" as he lacks a mane and his ears might not drop, although it is a bit early to know for certain.

 

[WhWRabbitry]

That's what, 3wks old? 4wks old?

It's probably gotten the dwarf gene, which is why it resembles a ND. It seems to have the short stubby face and teeny little ears that are often found in dwarf rabbits. Is this your first Lionhead x Holland litter?

3 weeks old tomorrow. Yes, this is the first time these two rabbits had been bred.

 

[Bad Habit]

This guy probably won't be a hold back if you are pursuing lionlops as a breed. As Dood pointed out, there's no mane there. Your lionhead must be a single mane, which makes it a poor candidate in a lionlop program, in my opinion. If you sell these kits, I would simply market them as holland crosses, as when buyers read lionhead, they think big poofy manes, which this guy obviously won't get.

Crossbreeding is almost an art, when done correctly. It can take time to get the feel of things, and to know what you're looking for. I found that my experience with purebred lionheads made it easier to evaluate mane with the crossbreeds, I would assume that experience with breeding lops would make it easier to tell who will lop and who won't.

 

[WhWRabbitry]

I agree this kit is likely a dwarf. Show quality Hollands and Lionheads usually have the gene and those without don't usually match the SOP. If you got any peanuts in the litter then both parents carry the dwarf gene.

Now a days Hollands have even more apple like heads than Netherlands and they are working on making the Lionhead skull rounder as well (although there are quite a few with very streamlined profiles on my area) so I am not surprised you got a kit that looks like a ND from your doe and buck

The Lionlop breed is in development and as a breeder of Lionlops who do have a mane and nicely lopped ears I don't know if I'd call this kit a "Lionlop" as he lacks a mane and his ears might not drop, although it is a bit early to know for certain.

Thanks so much for all the info Dood.
There were no peanuts in the litter. Two did not make it but didn't appear different in appearance than the two that did. Though the Lionhead Buck is the size of Lionheads he does have longer ears - I know he wouldn't meet the standard. But, he's a sweetheart. Him having long ears is what surprised me about the shortness of all the kits ears.

Here is a picture of the two:
Lionhead Buck: (Benjamin)
This is when he was only 10 wks old. After molting his mane did not come back but a tiny bit.

(far right)

Holland Lop Doe - Black one: (Rosie)

<br /><br /> __________ Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:45 am __________ <br /><br />

Whatever it is, it's terribly, horribly, wonderfully adorable!

Thank you Miss M! I think so too.

 

[des]

I am new to this forum. I have a holland lop doe and a single mane lion head buck. My doe is white with golden speckles and my lion head male started off black but lightened up and is a grey-brown with a white dot on his nose. I have bred them twice now. Both times we ended up with a mixture of half lion heads, and half standard looking rabbits, but not lop eared rabbits (more helicopter ears). lol. However, this time, we had a surprise! One of our rabbits "appears" to have angora or some sort of "wooly" type fur gene mixed in. It has the lion head type fur around the facial area, but long angora fur all over the entire body as well. Any ideas how this might have happened? This rabbit is beautiful, and we are definitely keeping her. She is grey all over. I will try to post a picture if possible.

 

[WhWRabbitry]

I don't know if I'd call this kit a "Lionlop" as he lacks a mane and his ears might not drop, although it is a bit early to know for certain.

What would you call the kits Dood?
I would be selling in the pet market. I would consider breeding these two again so I want to properly inform what I'm selling! Thank you.

 

[Dood]

I would say they are Holland x Lionheads

I believe your doe is definitely a dwarf so about 25% of the kits should be dwarfed.

I don't think your buck is a dwarf and he is a single maned Lionhead so 50% of the kits should be maned . If those are his siblings in the group photo then he might carry the Vienna gene - did any of the kits in this litter have white marks? <br /><br /> __________ Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:11 pm __________ <br /><br />

One of our rabbits "appears" to have angora or some sort of "wooly" type fur gene mixed in. It has the lion head type fur around the facial area, but long angora fur all over the entire body as well.

if the kit is still young then she might moult out of the fur. If she doesn't then your two rabbits might also both carry a long fur/angora gene possibly from fuzzy lops or jersey wollie in their backgrounds.

 

[WhWRabbitry]

I would say they are Holland x Lionheads

I believe your doe is definitely a dwarf so about 25% of the kits should be dwarfed.

I don't think your buck is a dwarf and he is a single maned Lionhead so 50% of the kits should be maned . If those are his siblings in the group photo then he might carry the Vienna gene - did any of the kits in this litter have white marks?

Thanks Dood. I appreciate the help. The group photo is not of siblings.
Two of the kits in the litter look like the one in the photo I started the thread with and two of them all black like the doe. <br /><br /> __________ Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:30 pm __________ <br /><br />

This guy probably won't be a hold back if you are pursuing lionlops as a breed. As Dood pointed out, there's no mane there. Your lionhead must be a single mane, which makes it a poor candidate in a lionlop program, in my opinion. If you sell these kits, I would simply market them as holland crosses, as when buyers read lionhead, they think big poofy manes, which this guy obviously won't get.

Thanks Bad Habit. I appreciate the feedback! I do think it's a good point as far as Holland crosses since you are right that people would naturally assume a poofy mane.
So, kind of along another thought...
IF I chose to instead use this Single Maned Lionhead buck to breed to a Double Maned Lionhead Doe (instead of the Holland) am I correct I'd likely end up with 1/2 with Single Mane and 1/2 with Double mane? Also, since folks seem to think the buck does not carry the Dwarf gene am I correct that I should not end up with peanuts IF I did that?
Trying to decide what I want to do!! THANK YOU!

 

[Dood]

IF I chose to instead use this Single Maned Lionhead buck to breed to a Double Maned Lionhead Doe (instead of the Holland) am I correct I'd likely end up with 1/2 with Single Mane and 1/2 with Double mane?

Correct

Also, since folks seem to think the buck does not carry the Dwarf gene am I correct that I should not end up with peanuts IF I did that?

Correct, you should get 50% dwarf and 50% non dwarf

 

[Bad Habit]

This guy probably won't be a hold back if you are pursuing lionlops as a breed. As Dood pointed out, there's no mane there. Your lionhead must be a single mane, which makes it a poor candidate in a lionlop program, in my opinion. If you sell these kits, I would simply market them as holland crosses, as when buyers read lionhead, they think big poofy manes, which this guy obviously won't get.

Thanks Bad Habit. I appreciate the feedback! I do think it's a good point as far as Holland crosses since you are right that people would naturally assume a poofy mane.
So, kind of along another thought...
IF I chose to instead use this Single Maned Lionhead buck to breed to a Double Maned Lionhead Doe (instead of the Holland) am I correct I'd likely end up with 1/2 with Single Mane and 1/2 with Double mane? Also, since folks seem to think the buck does not carry the Dwarf gene am I correct that I should not end up with peanuts IF I did that?
Trying to decide what I want to do!! THANK YOU!

Personally, I would not breed that buck. I like to see single manes that retain a fair bit of their wool past 1yr. My SM doe(the only one in my herd) has a very thick, fluffy chest, and has very thin, sparse mane on her head/face. I'm currently trying to find the right mane genetics match for her, as my current buck is not any great shakes either.

The thing to remember about lionheads is that not all double manes are created equal... There are tons of modifiers that aren't quite understood(at least by me, and I've been working with the breed for 4 years) that affect mane length, kink, strength, placement, retention, etc. It's much easier to start out with good quality manes than it is to try and breed them in later(and I speak of this from experience).

(edited because I broke the quote)