Is this really red?

[Ozarkansas]

This rabbits mom is broken red, her dad is BEW. She looked red when she was a baby. But now I want to call her "Red Agouti". Is this just a result of improper color combinations? Or is there a name for this?

 

[Dood]

Not in my opinion

Looks like a chestnut with short ticking, commonly seen in sandy and light grey Flemmish, and high Rufus possibly from a dark red New Zealand

Any info on the parents ?

 

[Ozarkansas]

Her mom is a 'broken' Red New Zealand cross and actually has 2 copies of the broken gene, and one copy of the rex gene. Her dad is a purebred Beveren with all BEW in his pedigree except for one Blue-VM in the 3rd generation.
Here is a pic of her at 4 weeks with her mom:

More info on this thread: why-does-this-doe-always-have-brokens-t32296.html

 

[alforddm]

I'm thinking this maybe a highly marked chocolate steel. Even though it does show some ring color and eye rings, the ring color seems to be all lighter at the tips, which is not typical. I'm not seeing any black/gray in the ring color picture which would indicate a chocolate base and it looking red as a kit would also indicate chocolate.

It is possible to to have highly marked steels. Zass has shared pictures of them before and I've personally had a silver tipped one that looked very much like a chinchilla except for the lack of agouti marks on the feet (and production record). The feet are usually what I use for a marker in these cases, but of course since this one is broken, that isn't possible.

All I can say is test breed and see what happens.

 

[Ozarkansas]

Well, she is due tomorrow to a Champagne D'Argent. Not sure if that can bring out anything though. I only bred her to him because he was my last Champagne and I was selling him, so I would never get the chance again.

 

[SableSteel]

I'd probably go with chestnut (albeit high rufus chestnut) too. It's uncommon (not impossible, but not common) to get a non-extension rabbit out of a purebred beveren, and the rufus from the NZR can through off the color a bit, making the chestnut look more reddish. There is a sure way to tell though; baby chestnuts are born with colored skin, and baby reds are born with pink skin. Do you have any pictures of him as a newborn?

 

[Ozarkansas]

I found two! I don't remember them looking quite so dark though...
<br /><br /> __________ Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:08 pm __________ <br /><br /> She just had 6 poples! They are dark in color. 3 broken, 2 solid, and 1 Vienna marked.

 

[alforddm]

Are the top couple of pics her and her littermates? If so then I think chocolate steel even more. I don't see any pink babies in that litter and I see several that look very chocolate.

 

[Ozarkansas]

Yes that is her and siblings. Here is a one week photo:
I really don’t remember them looking that chocolate, but I cannot deny they do look chocolate in the pictures.... <br /><br /> __________ Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:56 am __________ <br /><br /> Any more thoughts? SableSteel? Dood? Do you think she is Chocolate based?

 

[SableSteel]

From those pictures it does look chocolate based.

 

[Ozarkansas]

What test breedings can I do to prove it? I got all black based with the Champagne. Would I do better breeding her to blues or chocolates? What about BEW?

 

[alforddm]

If you have a chocolate breed her to that. Then if all the kits are chocolate, you can be fairly confident she is chocolate as well.

 

[Ozarkansas]

I figured that would be the best. We have 2 Chocolate Dutch bucks so I can try one of them. I am almost positive 2 of her litter mates were true red though. Because I remember them being lighter in color, and not showing any Agouti like markings on butcher day while the rest of the litter did. How far back does chocolate have to be in a BEW without showing up in the babies? Kim Calloway told me he crosses the Chocolate and BEW somtimes, but the buck doesn't have any in the last 4 generations.

 

[alforddm]

Where they all BEW? Because BEW covers everything like REW does. The buck himself could be chocolate and not show it. If the doe was also a red based chocolate (common as it reduces smutt in the reds), that could explain the litter.

 

[Ozarkansas]

The dad is all BEW except for a Blue VM in the Second generation, and that rabbit's mom who is a Blue VC. Not sure what the mom is, her previous onwner was breeding for meat only and said she was pure NZ. Not. :roll: But that's alright, because I wasn't looking for pure NZ I was looking for a meat mutt <br /><br /> __________ Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:45 pm __________ <br /><br /> So the babies are a week old. So far they appear Self except for this one, that is either heavy Steel or Agouti. Every day he is less black. I was thinking Steel because his belly is not white. But he is getting eye circles and his belly is getting lighter. What do y'all think?

 

[alforddm]

That is def a steel.

 

[Ozarkansas]

Thank you. I thought definitely Steel until today when I saw the beginning of eye circles.

 

[Dood]

Steel

It is a highly variable colour and can look almost like chestnuts or soooo dark they look self black

 

[Ozarkansas]

I am thinking the rest will turn out steel too. Just much darker than this one.