Is this another huge mistake?

[Albert]

Good morning everyone,

We're new to rabbit keeping and I think so far I've made some pretty rookie type errors that hopefully I've corrected? Originally we were going for suspended cages in our barn but I think it's too dark and we have 3 semi-wild domestic cats who live in there to keep any rodents down. So stupidly I bought 3 largish "Pet" type hutches before buying our 3 Californians and immediately realised they were way too small. I like the idea of permanent tractors so I've added these fixed runs onto the hutches which seems to work well. Each of our rabbits now has 2.5 square Metres (Yards) of space indoor and outdoor combined. They can stretch out and run and they can always see each other without getting personal. The runs have a fixed wire bottom 5cm (2") gap for grazing and to stop digging out and the tractors are moved every 2 days.

The mistake I think I may be about to make is it's their first breeding at the end of the month and the down ramp from the indoor area / nest box concerns me. Do you think we'll lose a lot of kits who end up outside in the potentially bad weather that wont be able to get back in? And if we keep with our 2 day movement schedule is it likely to make the does anxious and turn on the kits? At the moment they come charging out on move day to see what new grass is available.

Thanks

 

[MaggieJ]

Hi Albert. Welcome to RabbitTalk.

Good for you recognizing the problem before you lose kits. I think it is fixable though.

Your ramps are very steep. I suggest adding a shelf -- like a veranda -- part way down and having two ramps running across the front of the houses. That would mean a longer but easier route between levels.

A better solution would be to simply lower the level of the houses. If you could cut the legs by half the ramps would not be so steep and the kits should be able to manage them once their eyes are open and they start leaving the nest.

Apart from the access issue, you've built a terrific set-up for your buns with great attention to detail. I like the solid roofed area for them next to the houses. That will let them be outside in hot weather or rain -- a big plus.

If you would add your location -- country and region only -- to your profile, it would help us give you climate-specific advice. So many questions of rabbit care are dependent on climate.

~ MaggieJ

 

[Albert]

Thank you for the reply. We live pretty much smack bang in the centre of France in a region called Creuse. (I'll update my details shortly.)

Maximum summer temperatures run at around 38C (100F) and minimum winter temperatures go down to around -7C (19F) over night with a minimum daytime of around 0C (32F) but they are normally a good 5 degrees warmer than that.

We have an idea to move the tractors into the shade from the barn during the height of the summer. So far the Californians seem unfazed by the cold and often spend time in the run when it's freezing just enjoying the sunshine.

I've thought of installing a nesting box underneath the existing indoor box but I think access from the side would make things tricky and I don't want kits trodden on because there would be limited headroom to get in and out of a nest box.

I've also considered adding a low level insulated tote type box at the other end of the run but that is where they locate their toilet so I'm not sure that's a great idea either?

 

[MaggieJ]

My sister lived in France for twelve years (village of Massignac in Charente, and later in Bordeaux) so I know roughly where you are. Heat is likely to be a bigger problem than cold. It would be a good idea to use the shade of the barn in the hottest part of the summer.

Under no circumstances should you locate a nest box near the potty area. It causes confusion for the doe and if she continues to potty there and you could lose kits that way.

You have a little time before the end of the month to make changes and the kits will not be mobile until after their eyes open. There are many members better at rabbit housing questions than me -- hopefully they will chime in with suggestions. You could also check out the posts in the DIY section for ideas.

 

[eco2pia]

I like your set up very much. I think you will not have to worry about losing kits once their eyes are open and they are moving around on their own, but you might want to be doubly sure they will not be dragged out of the nest boxes. A lip (belly scraper) that they have to jump over usually keeps very young kits in the nest box.

As for them being upset by the moving, if they are not wildly upset now, they will likely take it in stride after they have kits. Most of the time normal routines are well tolerated, but "new" things are more problematic. You could make moving as routine as possible--same time of day, always give a special treat right before, always say the same things, something like that. As long as they are not actively in labor (which mine like to do in the middle of the night) they should be fine.

 

[MuddyFarms]

Thank you for the reply. We live pretty much smack bang in the centre of France in a region called Creuse. (I'll update my details shortly.)

Maximum summer temperatures run at around 38C (100F) and minimum winter temperatures go down to around -7C (19F) over night with a minimum daytime of around 0C (32F) but they are normally a good 5 degrees warmer than that.

We have an idea to move the tractors into the shade from the barn during the height of the summer. So far the Californians seem unfazed by the cold and often spend time in the run when it's freezing just enjoying the sunshine.

I've thought of installing a nesting box underneath the existing indoor box but I think access from the side would make things tricky and I don't want kits trodden on because there would be limited headroom to get in and out of a nest box.

I've also considered adding a low level insulated tote type box at the other end of the run but that is where they locate their toilet so I'm not sure that's a great idea either?

Looking at your set up I was thinking a tote could be a good idea, too. Does often want to dig down to make their nest. If the doe did not want to go up into your enclosed area, maybe it would be good to have the tote at ground level as another option for her. Is there room for a small tote under the covered area next to the ramp? You can then also lift the tote lid to check on the kits and they would have some protection from stray rain. More bedding in the winter months makes it easier for the kits to climb out when they are too young. The opening in the end of the tote can be made a little higher up so the kits can't get out as easily. If the doe needs a little step to get in because of the higher opening, maybe a brick or something could help. Just some ideas!

Looks like you have some good ground and grass for them!

 

[MuddyFarms]

Oh, if the tote is short enough or there is a step, the does may hop on top of them to hang out under the covered area still. They may tip them over if they aren't heavy enough, although that could probably be remedied.

 

[MnCanary]

I put a nest box on a shelf in the does's cage, and realized after the kits were born that it might be difficult for the kits to get down to food and water. I put in a ramp, and sort of steep like yours. I didn't need to be worried, the kits figured the ramp out almost as soon as they ventured out of the nest box. Furthermore, I've seen 3 week old kits jump well over a foot to get up on a shelf, so I really didn't need the ramp.

 

[Albert]

I've seen 3 week old kits jump well over a foot to get up on a shelf, so I really didn't need the ramp.

Get out of town! We've raised all sorts of livestock over the years... I've seen my wife chased out of our own farm gate by our angry gander. I've been pulled into a pig shed on my back by a playful sow but I've never know anything that's only 3 weeks old be so independent.

This is going to be a real education!

 

[Albert]

Thank you all for your suggestions and advice. Like most people who keep livestock we want them to be able to exhibit as many natural behaviours as possible and have a good quality of life while they are in our care. So starting out with a new breed is always a bit of balancing act between practicality, understanding and kindness. So, every bit of advice really makes a difference.

Thank you

 

[LatchawBriarPatch]

Here's a video on the kindling tote mentioned. I plan to do this as well. Love your set up!

 

[Albert]

Here's a video on the kindling tote mentioned. I plan to do this as well. Love your set up!

Does the expanding foam worry you at all? I'm not sure I'd want it in nibbling range of my rabbits. Other than that I think I'll give it a go.

 

[LatchawBriarPatch]

Does the expanding foam worry you at all? I'm not sure I'd want it in nibbling range of my rabbits. Other than that I think I'll give it a go.

Yes. I read through the coments and he gave this answer....He said they spit it out and if it is an issue to use quickset instead, I guess that gets hard enough they can't chew it.

 

[TracysBunBun]

Hi Albert. Welcome to RabbitTalk.

Good for you recognizing the problem before you lose kits. I think it is fixable though.

Your ramps are very steep. I suggest adding a shelf -- like a veranda -- part way down and having two ramps running across the front of the houses. That would mean a longer but easier route between levels.

A better solution would be to simply lower the level of the houses. If you could cut the legs by half the ramps would not be so steep and the kits should be able to manage them once their eyes are open and they start leaving the nest.

Apart from the access issue, you've built a terrific set-up for your buns with great attention to detail. I like the solid roofed area for them next to the houses. That will let them be outside in hot weather or rain -- a big plus.

If you would add your location -- country and region only -- to your profile, it would help us give you climate-specific advice. So many questions of rabbit care are dependent on climate.

~ MaggieJ

My sister lived in France for twelve years (village of Massignac in Charente, and later in Bordeaux) so I know roughly where you are. Heat is likely to be a bigger problem than cold. It would be a good idea to use the shade of the barn in the hottest part of the summer.

Under no circumstances should you locate a nest box near the potty area. It causes confusion for the doe and if she continues to potty there and you could lose kits that way.

You have a little time before the end of the month to make changes and the kits will not be mobile until after their eyes open. There are many members better at rabbit housing questions than me -- hopefully they will chime in with suggestions. You could also check out the posts in the DIY section for ideas.

Hi Maggie, this is unrelated but I can actually post something here. On the introductions forum, I do not have privileges to do so. So it is ok if this is policy but it just seems strange. Thanks, Tracy

 

[MaggieJ]

Hi Maggie, this is unrelated but I can actually post something here. On the introductions forum, I do not have privileges to do so. So it is ok if this is policy but it just seems strange. Thanks, Tracy

Tracy, welcome to RabbitTalk. You should be able to post in all the forums now.

~ MaggieJ

 

[MsTemeraire]

Under no circumstances should you locate a nest box near the potty area. It causes confusion for the doe and if she continues to potty there and you could lose kits that way.

You'll probably find the does change the place where they defecate when pregnant. They have an instinct not to poop near the nest site, and they choose a nest site fairly early on in pregnancy when in solid bottomed housing. Changing their usual poop corner can be a sign that a doe is pregnant.

 

[MuddyFarms]

You'll probably find the does change the place where they defecate when pregnant. They have an instinct not to poop near the nest site, and they choose a nest site fairly early on in pregnancy when in solid bottomed housing. Changing their usual poop corner can be a sign that a doe is pregnant.

I have definitely had does do this. Certain ones also pick a nest corner and refuse to get into the nest box in the corner where I put it, trying to make a nest in the 'right' corner. When I put it in the corner they want, they go right to putting a nest together. Always interesting when a doe is so specific like that!

 

[MsTemeraire]

I have definitely had does do this. Certain ones also pick a nest corner and refuse to get into the nest box in the corner where I put it, trying to make a nest in the 'right' corner. When I put it in the corner they want, they go right to putting a nest together. Always interesting when a doe is so specific like that!

About 20 years ago I had a pregnant house rabbit. Really early on in the pregnancy, like maybe 10-12 days in, she started exploring the house like she'd never done before - squeezing under wardrobes, investigating every corner. Then for a week or so she spent a lot of time under my bed in a cardboard box, shredding newspaper. Eventually she chose a large indoor cage in the guest bedroom (door open) and had her babies in there. I got to see a lot of behaviour that most people never do.

 

[MuddyFarms]

About 20 years ago I had a pregnant house rabbit. Really early on in the pregnancy, like maybe 10-12 days in, she started exploring the house like she'd never done before - squeezing under wardrobes, investigating every corner. Then for a week or so she spent a lot of time under my bed in a cardboard box, shredding newspaper. Eventually she chose a large indoor cage in the guest bedroom (door open) and had her babies in there. I got to see a lot of behaviour that most people never do.

Interesting! Rabbits are pretty neat animals. I have been wondering how house rabbits do with a dog in the house. When you had a house rabbit, did you have any other animals in the house?

 

[MsTemeraire]

Interesting! Rabbits are pretty neat animals. I have been wondering how house rabbits do with a dog in the house. When you had a house rabbit, did you have any other animals in the house?

No, no other animals.
I'm not sure I'd want a predator and prey animal living together.... I've thought about having another house rabbit but I currently have two cats with high prey drive. Even if they appear to get on, it'll be the prey animal that suffers - from stress - and rabbits are good at hiding that. And how would I introduce them? The cats are adult; a rabbit would ideally be young, to grow up accepting the cats - but most breeds would be prey size for the cats when young enough to do this. I don't particularly want a giant breed.