Is this a chestnut
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Those don't look like chestnuts to me. They don't have the black ear lacing or ticking that should normally be showing up at this age (and they would have most likely been born looking black with light inner ear and bellies if they were chestnut). Those look like non-extension colors, which in this case would be red, orange and/or fawn. The darker shades along the nose and flanks of the darkest one, on the right, and possibly the one in the middle, would be what's called "smut" on an orange/red. It's the dark coloration that is frequently left over by the non-extension alleles, usually found in the same places you'd typically see it on a tort, which is a non-extension self.
The sire is a chestnut agouti - you can see the black lacing on his ears and throughout his fur. If you blow into the fur, you'll see what's known as "ring color," bands of slate gray-orange-dark ticking appearing on each hair. Here are some examples; the first is a chestnut Polish, the second is a chestnut St Hubert, so in that photo, in addition to the chestnut bands, there are white hairs interspersed throughout, called "silvering."
The two kits on either end of the photo below (SO cute and chubby!!!
) are what would normally be called chestnut, with the middle one being chinchilla:
Agouti is really a pattern, not a color, which is produced by an allele on the A locus notated <A>. It results in rings on the fur, and what I always call "trim," which is white on the belly, undertail, inner legs, and usually around the nostrils, eyes, jawline and inner ears.
Agoutis come in different base colors (black; its dilute, blue; chocolate; and its dilute, lilac), so other names are added to the moniker "agouti," or substituted entirely for it. Thus a black-based agouti is called chestnut agouti or just chestnut, blue agouti is called opal, a chocolate agouti is called that or amber (in Rex), and lilac agouti is known as lynx.
There are other alleles that affect the expression of the agouti varieties. A dominant chinchilla allele <c(chd)_> prevents most or all expression of yellow pigments, so where a normal agouti is orange, it will be pearly white. A black chinchilla agouti is called "chinchilla" and a blue chinchilla agouti is called blue chinchilla, or squirrel.
Here is ring color on a chinchilla:
and here is ring color on a squirrel (not an especially good pattern, but still shows the banding on the hairs):
Non-extension alleles <ee> prevent the expression of the dark banding, leaving only the orange parts. So a red, orange, fawn, cream, will have little or no dark ticking but will still show the agouti "trim." The non-extension alleles do leave a bit of dark ticking on the shorter fur (face, ears, flanks, belly, feet and tail), which is called "smut." How much smut depends on other genes like one called wideband <w> and others called modifiers. In these varieties, you will not see the typical ring pattern in the body fur, which is why in some breeds they are classed in the "Wideband Group" rather than as an agouti; but they are, genetically, still agoutis.
If you put the chinchilla and the non-extension alleles together on an agouti, you get suppression of both orange colors and dark ticking, leaving an all-white or nearly all-white rabbit with dark eyes, called an "ermine" or a "frosty." The rabbit may still have the smut of a non-extension variety showing, or as it's called, a "veil" or "haze" of black tipping. One of the newest ARBA-accepted breeds, the Czech Frosty, is this variety.
Photo of Czech Frosty from https://arba.net/czech-frosty/
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Those don't look like chestnuts to me. They don't have the black ear lacing or ticking that should normally be showing up at this age (and they would have most likely been born looking black with light inner ear and bellies if they were chestnut). Those look like non-extension colors, which in this case would be red, orange and/or fawn. The darker shades along the nose and flanks of the darkest one, on the right, and possibly the one in the middle, would be what's called "smut" on an orange/red. It's the dark coloration that is frequently left over by the non-extension alleles, usually found in the same places you'd typically see it on a tort, which is a non-extension self.
The sire is a chestnut agouti - you can see the black lacing on his ears and throughout his fur. If you blow into the fur, you'll see what's known as "ring color," bands of slate gray-orange-dark ticking appearing on each hair. Here are some examples; the first is a chestnut Polish, the second is a chestnut St Hubert, so in that photo, in addition to the chestnut bands, there are white hairs interspersed throughout, called "silvering."
View attachment 45508View attachment 45509
The two kits on either end of the photo below (SO cute and chubby!!!
View attachment 45510
Agouti is really a pattern, not a color, which is produced by an allele on the A locus notated <A>. It results in rings on the fur, and what I always call "trim," which is white on the belly, undertail, inner legs, and usually around the nostrils, eyes, jawline and inner ears.
Agoutis come in different base colors (black; its dilute, blue; chocolate; and its dilute, lilac), so other names are added to the moniker "agouti," or substituted entirely for it. Thus a black agouti is called chestnut agouti or just chestnut, blue agouti is called opal, a chocolate agouti is called that or amber (in Rex), and lilac agouti is known as lynx.
There other alleles that affect the expression of the agouti varieties. A dominant chinchilla allele <c(chd)_> prevents most or all expression of yellow pigments, so where a normal agouti is orange, it will be pearly white. A black chinchilla agouti is called "chinchilla" and a blue chinchilla agouti is called blue chinchilla, or squirrel.
Here is ring color on a chinchilla:
View attachment 45514
and here is ring color on a squirrel (not an especially good pattern, but still shows the banding on the hairs):
View attachment 45515
Non-extension alleles <ee> prevent the expression of the dark banding, leaving only the orange parts. So a red, orange, fawn, cream, will have little or no dark ticking but will still show the agouti "trim." The non-extension alleles do leave a bit of dark ticking on the shorter fur (face, ears, flanks, belly, feet and tail), which is called "smut." How much smut depends on other genes like one called wideband <w> and others called modifiers. In these varieties, you will not see the typical ring pattern in the body fur, which is why in some breeds they are classed in the "Wideband Group" rather than as an agouti; but they are, genetically, still agoutis.
If you put the chinchilla and the non-extension alleles together on an agouti, you get suppression of both orange colors and dark ticking, leaving an all-white or nearly all-white rabbit with dark eyes, called an "ermine" or a "frosty." The rabbit may still have the smut
Wow I love how you explained all of this! It was so easy to understand for someone who knows next to nothin about genetics! Thank you so much! So what color do you think they would be? They are French lops if that helps, don’t know if I said that before.Those don't look like chestnuts to me. They don't have the black ear lacing or ticking that should normally be showing up at this age (and they would have most likely been born looking black with light inner ear and bellies if they were chestnut). Those look like non-extension colors, which in this case would be red, orange and/or fawn. The darker shades along the nose and flanks of the darkest one, on the right, and possibly the one in the middle, would be what's called "smut" on an orange/red. It's the dark coloration that is frequently left over by the non-extension alleles, usually found in the same places you'd typically see it on a tort, which is a non-extension self.
The sire is a chestnut agouti - you can see the black lacing on his ears and throughout his fur. If you blow into the fur, you'll see what's known as "ring color," bands of slate gray-orange-dark ticking appearing on each hair. Here are some examples; the first is a chestnut Polish, the second is a chestnut St Hubert, so in that photo, in addition to the chestnut bands, there are white hairs interspersed throughout, called "silvering."
View attachment 45508View attachment 45509
The two kits on either end of the photo below (SO cute and chubby!!!
View attachment 45510
Agouti is really a pattern, not a color, which is produced by an allele on the A locus notated <A>. It results in rings on the fur, and what I always call "trim," which is white on the belly, undertail, inner legs, and usually around the nostrils, eyes, jawline and inner ears.
Agoutis come in different base colors (black; its dilute, blue; chocolate; and its dilute, lilac), so other names are added to the moniker "agouti," or substituted entirely for it. Thus a black-based agouti is called chestnut agouti or just chestnut, blue agouti is called opal, a chocolate agouti is called that or amber (in Rex), and lilac agouti is known as lynx.
There are other alleles that affect the expression of the agouti varieties. A dominant chinchilla allele <c(chd)_> prevents most or all expression of yellow pigments, so where a normal agouti is orange, it will be pearly white. A black chinchilla agouti is called "chinchilla" and a blue chinchilla agouti is called blue chinchilla, or squirrel.
Here is ring color on a chinchilla:
View attachment 45514
and here is ring color on a squirrel (not an especially good pattern, but still shows the banding on the hairs):
View attachment 45515
Non-extension alleles <ee> prevent the expression of the dark banding, leaving only the orange parts. So a red, orange, fawn, cream, will have little or no dark ticking but will still show the agouti "trim." The non-extension alleles do leave a bit of dark ticking on the shorter fur (face, ears, flanks, belly, feet and tail), which is called "smut." How much smut depends on other genes like one called wideband <w> and others called modifiers. In these varieties, you will not see the typical ring pattern in the body fur, which is why in some breeds they are classed in the "Wideband Group" rather than as an agouti; but they are, genetically, still agoutis.
If you put the chinchilla and the non-extension alleles together on an agouti, you get suppression of both orange colors and dark ticking, leaving an all-white or nearly all-white rabbit with dark eyes, called an "ermine" or a "frosty." The rabbit may still have the smut of a non-extension variety showing, or as it's called, a "veil" or "haze" of black tipping. One of the newest ARBA-accepted breeds, the Czech Frosty, is this variety.
View attachment 45511
Photo of Czech Frosty from https://arba.net/czech-frosty/
I'm so happy it was helpful! I love it when my writing ends up understandable to a normal person - I have a tendency to get too technical for great clarity. I'm a rabbit geek.
My thought is that in the photo above, you have some combination of orange, fawn and/or cream kits (all are non-extension varieties that can be shown in French Lops in the Wide Band Group).
The first kit looks like a pretty typical orange; its color seems too dense to be a dilute orange or fawn. The middle kit seems to have the bluish hue of a cream (a non-extension blue agouti); and the kit on the far right could end up being what's normally called a "smutty orange." I don't see anything that really has color intense enough to call red, but you'll have to watch them as they grow. Orange and red are usually the same genetically, but red has more "rufus modifiers" than orange. Fawn has less rufus modifers than orange (at least, in lops; fawn means something else in some other breeds), or else it can be a dilute orange.
Common names can be tricky, since they frequently refer to the phenotype of the rabbit rather than its genetic underpinnings; so, several different genotypes may produce very similar phenotypes. I've seen rabbits shown as fawn, for instance, that were dilute oranges, and others that were very low-rufus oranges.
Given their magpie dam, you should also keep your eyes open for "harlequinization" in all of the kits, which will look like random subtle patches of light or dark kind of hidden within the overall color. I don't see any obvious harlequinization in any of these kits or the others (other than, of course, the magpie kit), but the effects can be very small and subtle.
Magpie, incidentally, is a chinchilla harlequin - just like in a chinchilla agouti, the chinchilla allele <c(chd)> blocks expresson of the pigments that make orange, so in an agouti it means the bands are pearly white instead of orange, and in a harlequin the parts that would normally be orange are white.
Hickory Ridge Hollands has a good series of color photos of Holland Lops, with photos of orange and cream Hollands under the "Wideband" section, here:
https://hickroyridgehollands.com/color-guide
Green Barn Farm hosts another really good page, for a bit more advanced study. The photos in this matrix include information on the common name for each variety, as well as a verbal description and the genetic code for each. You'll find the agoutis and oranges/creams/etc. under the "Agouti Pattern" category about halfway down this page.
https://www.gbfarm.org/rabbit/holland-colors-matrix.shtml
