Is this a black otter? More pics page 2 :)

[Zass]

So, are you saying a true opal should have white inside the ears or not? I think my opal's coloring looks pretty normal other than he doesn't have the best ring colors.

The otter baby in question, has a normal white belly, just like my normal colored black otter. A steeled otter has a much darker belly according to the pics Glenna Huffmon's Color Guide.

yeah, opals should have white bellies(trimmed with cream) and white inside the ears, eye circles, face marks, etc.
I have a bunch in my gallery

A steeled otter shouldn't look just like a normal otter + ticking. So the beautiful little bunneh you pictured confuses me :shock: , maybe someone else has more input?

 

[MamaMandy]

Yup! I'm still confused too! LOL My broken opal looks just like yours except he's broken of course and he does have some scattered white hairs. And yes, the pics I found of steeled otters vs. normal otter shows that they look very different. I'm still wondering if it's just a chocolate otter with lots of rufus?? Is that a possibility?

 

[Dood]

Yes, but you won't know unless you test breed.

 

[MamaMandy]

Test breed who to what? LOL

 

[Dood]

This 'chocolate' otter kit to an agouti that doesn't carry self and isnt a steel - you will get visual steels since steel cannot hide in agouti's.

 

[MamaMandy]

OK wait, if steel cannot hide in an agouti then I don't see how I could have a steel gene here. The buck I thought it was coming from is an agouti, a broken opal! I bred him to a chocolate chestnut and got an orange and a broken black otter. Those siblings are the parents of this supposed chocolate otter. Does that make sense?

AWOL x SuzyAnna produced Nacho and Phoebe
Nacho x Phoebe produced Rusty the supposed chocolate otter

 

[Dood]

If you are sure the broken opal and chocolate chestnut are not steel then this kit cannot be steel either.

But I'm not convinced AWOL isnt a steel. Because the broken pattern is covering his belly you cannot tell what colour it would be to rule out steel and Phoebe - the otter / self - could be a secret carrier.

Although, your brokens have a lot of stray white hairs and it could be some other unknown gene they carry messing up the fur.

 

[MamaMandy]

What makes you think AWOL is a steel? Just trying to figure this out. I thought an agouti carrying steel would have little or no eye rings or ear lacing. Correct? I'm fairly decent with genetics, but the steel gene I've never had reason to study out. We are currently trying to breed AWOL to Phoebe as a test. Do you think that's a good idea...will it actually prove something? Hopefully we don't get too many charlies and can figure this out. Can you tell me what we'd get if one of both are actually carrying steel?

 

[Dood]

I get steel kits all the time so I can say from experience that it is highly variable colour modifier.

Some steel look like slightly darker agouti and you'd never know without a side by side comparison to a non-steel while other agouti steels look black(or blue/chocolate/lilac) and can pass as selfs (however these rabbits usually have two steel genes)

AWOL's eye rings are not very distinct, which can idicate steel.

Breeding him to Phoebe, the broken otter, will not help since 75% of the kits will be broken and 50% tan, not good odds to get a solid agouti steel. And if they both carry steel you could get kits that look self but are actually agouti steel

 

[MamaMandy]

Well, shoot. AWOL and Phoebe have been bred. Hopefully we'll find something out anyway. I guess I should mention too, that AWOL has been bred to a chestnut and had all normal colored chestnuts. He's been bred to a self chin and they've had normal opals, chestnuts, black and blue otters. I just don't know what to make of all this...LOL. I do appreciate all of your help and info!<br /><br />__________ Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:19 pm __________<br /><br />Oh, and let's say AWOL does carry steel...what would I need to breed him to in order to get true, showable steels? Or is that not possible?

 

[Zass]

Well, shoot. AWOL and Phoebe have been bred. Hopefully we'll find something out anyway. I guess I should mention too, that AWOL has been bred to a chestnut and had all normal colored chestnuts. He's been bred to a self chin and they've had normal opals, chestnuts, black and blue otters. I just don't know what to make of all this...LOL. I do appreciate all of your help and info!

__________ Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:19 pm __________

Oh, and let's say AWOL does carry steel...what would I need to breed him to in order to get true, showable steels? Or is that not possible?

Chestnut actually. If he truly is a steel, breeding to a chestnut or any pure agouti pattern would produce the best steels. If you breed to a clearly visible chestnut and get no steels...chances are your buck isn't a steel.

Dunno if steels are showable in that breed though...

 

[MamaMandy]

Really? Ok, good to know! Yes, every time I've bred him to my chestnut I've gotten more chestnuts. I've bred him to my chocolate chestnut and gotten black otters and oranges. Thanks!