Is this a black otter? More pics page 2 :)
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Silver Willow
Well-known member
Looks like some sort of a sable marten to me, chocolate sable marten? :?
But what a cutie!
But what a cutie!
chau
Member
He seems to be chocolate Otter !
I show you my black otter at 2 months old and at 7 months old! His color has turn to real dark black however he was very (too) light
I show you my black otter at 2 months old and at 7 months old! His color has turn to real dark black however he was very (too) light
lilrabbitry715
Well-known member
It would me considered chocolate but its not a Marten. I think we need more pics. It's adorable!
This rabbit is out of two of my rabbits but is at my co-owner's rabbitry. I'll have to see if she has any other pics of him!<br /><br />__________ Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:05 pm __________<br /><br />Anyone else have any input? Dood?
Not much to add - looks like a chocolate otter to me.
I think there is too much white to be a tan but its possible, although the wideband gene is pretty rare in ND. If the orange mom looked like a self and didn't have any white/cream trimming its possible the sire is a wideband carrier and produced this guy.
I think there is too much white to be a tan but its possible, although the wideband gene is pretty rare in ND. If the orange mom looked like a self and didn't have any white/cream trimming its possible the sire is a wideband carrier and produced this guy.
Thanks! So you don't think it has too much black to be a chocolate otter? I have a chocolate otter Holland Lop and it looked completely chocolate from day 1. This guy was born pretty much black. This baby's mother is a broken black otter, and the sire is the orange and he definitely has a white belly and eye rings etc.
I've seen dark chocolate rabbits but never an ultra smutty black like this guy would have to be so I think he's chocolate.
However the pictures not the best for cour ID so maybe more photos are needed
However the pictures not the best for cour ID so maybe more photos are needed
Ok, cool! I'll try to get a better pic. A side view would be good. Thanks!
__________ Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:00 pm __________
<br /><br />__________ Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:12 pm __________<br /><br />Ok, so here are some better pics of Rusty. Dood, Skysthelimit, and any of you other color experts out there please share your knowledge!
__________ Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:00 pm __________
<br /><br />__________ Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:12 pm __________<br /><br />Ok, so here are some better pics of Rusty. Dood, Skysthelimit, and any of you other color experts out there please share your knowledge!
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I still say chocolate otter.
There is a crazy amount of ticking in the coat. Hummmmm, I wonder if the steel gene is involved, steel would also help explain the darkness.
Does the breeder have any steels ?
There is a crazy amount of ticking in the coat. Hummmmm, I wonder if the steel gene is involved, steel would also help explain the darkness.
Does the breeder have any steels ?
Funny you should mention steel. We don't have any steels at all, but have wondered before if the steel gene might be hiding. Most of our babies from my broken opal buck look normal, but we had a really weird litter once...
OK, so when I bought this broken opal, I was told he was a broken blue and was sold a black himi doe to go with him. I knew as soon as I saw him that he was not a broken blue, but he was sharp looking so I bought him anyway. The breeder has of course, fallen off the map and I can't get a hold of him to ask him more questions about this buck. He told me he'd bred that pair together many times and gotten great babies, so I bred them.
I'd never seen an opal in person, so I was kind of thinking he was a broken blue tort. Well, the himi had 4 living babies. A self black, a self blue, a charlie marked that had only blue eye rings, and a blue otter. Now this is obviously impossible...he can't be agouti and father selfs and tans! At first I wrote it off as the blue otter baby being an opal that just hadn't gotten it's rings yet. (It died at around 7 weeks old in a terrible heat wave we had). But, since breeding the same buck to several other does (that are colors that are actually supposed to be bred to opals! LOL) I get lots of otters from him, so I know he carries tan. So, then I thought maybe just the himi gene being mixed with agouti accounted for the weird babies. I've just never been able to figure out exactly what caused that weird litter.
Then my fellow breeder and I were reading about the steel gene and how it can hide and be partially dominant etc. and we've wondered if possibly the broken opal carries it? Oh, and I guess I should mention that Rusty's parents are full siblings out of AWOL, the broken opal. So...what is going on here???
OK, so when I bought this broken opal, I was told he was a broken blue and was sold a black himi doe to go with him. I knew as soon as I saw him that he was not a broken blue, but he was sharp looking so I bought him anyway. The breeder has of course, fallen off the map and I can't get a hold of him to ask him more questions about this buck. He told me he'd bred that pair together many times and gotten great babies, so I bred them.
I'd never seen an opal in person, so I was kind of thinking he was a broken blue tort. Well, the himi had 4 living babies. A self black, a self blue, a charlie marked that had only blue eye rings, and a blue otter. Now this is obviously impossible...he can't be agouti and father selfs and tans! At first I wrote it off as the blue otter baby being an opal that just hadn't gotten it's rings yet. (It died at around 7 weeks old in a terrible heat wave we had). But, since breeding the same buck to several other does (that are colors that are actually supposed to be bred to opals! LOL) I get lots of otters from him, so I know he carries tan. So, then I thought maybe just the himi gene being mixed with agouti accounted for the weird babies. I've just never been able to figure out exactly what caused that weird litter.
Then my fellow breeder and I were reading about the steel gene and how it can hide and be partially dominant etc. and we've wondered if possibly the broken opal carries it? Oh, and I guess I should mention that Rusty's parents are full siblings out of AWOL, the broken opal. So...what is going on here???
OneAcreFarm
Well-known member
The rufus in an Opals coat does not show up until much later than 7wks. It is very easy to mistake them for a broken blue otter when they are young.
With as much ticking as this rabbit has in its coat, I would think that there is some steel in there somewhere....
With as much ticking as this rabbit has in its coat, I would think that there is some steel in there somewhere....
wait...can a visual otter even have steel?
It cannot hide on any visual agouti coat, and will ruin the white inside the ears and belly color at least, usually the eye circles too.
From my understanding, it's really only with self colored rabbits that hidden steel is an issue.
So... what color is his belly?
It cannot hide on any visual agouti coat, and will ruin the white inside the ears and belly color at least, usually the eye circles too.
From my understanding, it's really only with self colored rabbits that hidden steel is an issue.
So... what color is his belly?
See, I was wondering about AWOL, because he has a lot of white ticking on his colored areas. But, I really don't understand exactly how this steel gene works or which colors can hide it.
The rabbit in question here, that is supposedly a chocolate otter has a cream belly, and I'll check to see what the undercolor is.
The rabbit in question here, that is supposedly a chocolate otter has a cream belly, and I'll check to see what the undercolor is.
MamaMandy":3fgnaoje said:
A gold tipped blue steel looks a lot like an opal with less distinct markings. Is it possible it could have been mistaken on a broken coat? It only take one copy of the steel gene to muck up your colors though, so no true visual agouti can hide it, and the pretty white ear insides are usually the dead give away.
Hmmm I guess steel CAN show up on an otter coat, but will ruin it and be a visual steel? Having a really hard time finding pics online.
I've had tons of steels, but no otters, I'm sure if I had otters I'd end up with steel otters...haha, it's just my luck
Maybe I should get some to show everyone...So, are you saying a true opal should have white inside the ears or not? I think my opal's coloring looks pretty normal other than he doesn't have the best ring colors.
The otter baby in question, has a normal white belly, just like my normal colored black otter. A steeled otter has a much darker belly according to the pics Glenna Huffmon's Color Guide.
The otter baby in question, has a normal white belly, just like my normal colored black otter. A steeled otter has a much darker belly according to the pics Glenna Huffmon's Color Guide.
