is it that hard to differentiate varieties?

[phillinley]

We were at a show in Grinnell, IA yesterday and my daughter put her Lynx Mini Rex on the table and we heard them mention four others in the class needed to come up. This was exciting for her because she has never been to a show where there was another youth lynx other than hers. Her bun was transitioning from baby to adult coat so I knew she had no chance, but it's boring going against yourself every show when her older siblings get competition in other breeds. Up plops four more Lynx, except they are clearly Opal. We don't even have Opals, but it was clear as day to me. But not 100% sure, I didn't want to be a jerk and my daughter didn't notice anyway, so they judged them out. This judge is a very friendly helpful judge to the kids so it was not a case of not caring. I even asked him at the end, if there's a color variance between the lynx, and he said it can vary from lighter to darker. The second show, before the kid even got his second bunny up there, the judge says "we're not ready for Opals yet, we're on L". Then the kid says they are Lynx, and she goes on to explain not only the color tone but the color bands on the fur as to why they are all opals and not lynx.

Beyond this show, we've also had other mini-rex breeders tell us our lilacs are very bad blues and we shouldn't show them, not knowing that lilac was a variety.

So for rex breeders, is it really all that hard to tell the difference between some of these varieties, or did the first judge just screw up an easy call?

 

[Whipple]

I watched a judge allow a broken blue chin Rex. Judges should be the first to notice and correct people. How else are breeders going to know better.
Sounds like the second judge did good though

 

[skysthelimit]

Yes, there is an article somewhere that a lot of the things people say are lynx are really fawns. Then there was a problem with one member who thought she had the choco gene, but the ambers were really reds, no choco gene but non extension. The blue/lilac otter thing it a bit confusing until jr or senior prime coats.

I had two opal bucks that had no ring color until they were 6 mos. Until then, I really wasn't sure if they were broken blues or not. And the last,I had a castor kit that had no rings. He was very light, like a red, but had agouti markings.

 

[SatinsRule]

I think alot of the problem is that the lines between varieties in some breeds has become blurred.

Case in point: At my most recent show in Jefferson, WI, the judge (a renowned Satin & Mini Satin breeder) found himself judging the AOV's for mini satins, (which basically is showroom classification in which all the varieties which have not yet been accepted into the breed's standard are placed in the showroom until they're accepted) and a lady brought up what appeared to be a copper mini satin. When the judge commented as such, the breeder remarked that it was some kind of steel-tipped tort something another which nobody had ever heard of.

My point being this. The wide range of varieties and their names often results in the names being crossed up.

The difference between Lynx and Opals is quite noticeable IMHO, but in many cases, the differences are not so obvious.

 

[Honorine]

The Lynx standard is written to favor fawns and penalize true Lynx- many judges wouldn't know a true Lynx if you made them wear it as a hat. Fawns are often placed over true Lynx, when they should be DQ'd. True Lynx do look light gray, they are Lilac agouti's, not supposed to be orange like a fawn. I have seen an opal who at first glance did appear to be a Lynx, my friend just kept saying look at her, keep looking- then I realized her eyes were the wrong color for a Lynx, and she was a genetic Opal. Today she showed me a very interesting MR she bought, it was a chocolate self chin- it looks like just a chocolate with slightly off color except to someone who has the knowledge to see what it really is. So few breeders or judges really know or understand color genetics, and Lynx needs the standard rewritten to favor true Lynxs and exclude Fawns and poorly colored Opals Won't happen, its a shame.

 

[skysthelimit]

It is amazing how many breeders don't have a good grasp of color genetics,esp in breeds with a large variety of colors. I have a ped where a bun is written as a opal, coming from a tort and broken tort, which is really genetically impossible. More than likely a tort otter produced a blue otter.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

It is amazing how many breeders don't have a good grasp of color genetics,esp in breeds with a large variety of colors. I have a ped where a bun is written as a opal, coming from a tort and broken tort, which is really genetically impossible. More than likely a tort otter produced a blue otter.

I won't lie, I'm very shaky with certain loci of rabbit color genetics...particularly some aspects of the C locus really befuddle me. However, because of this I'm aiming at some pretty "simple" color varieties for my Mini Rex...REW and BEW, each is a homozygous expression that masks everything else. When combined, REW > BEW. I'm getting more cozy with the idea of my blues...genetically black rabbit that is homozygous dilute.

But many of the varieties in the MR breed? I would struggle to name on sight, much less describe what they are genetically.

So I can kind of see both sides...it isn't the end of the world if a breeder has a poor grasp of color genetics, but if they aren't great with color genetics they should probably avoid varieties they don't actually understand. Does that make sense? I hope I'm making sense, LOL.

 

[phillinley]

So in the future, is it a faux pas to point out to a judge that a competitor's rabbit is not actually a Lynx, or should I just let it go til the next judge spots it? It's just hard enough to have a judge even look twice at a Lynx or Lilac, without having other people put stuff up that aren't even the correct variety.

 

[skysthelimit]

So I can kind of see both sides...it isn't the end of the world if a breeder has a poor grasp of color genetics, but if they aren't great with color genetics they should probably avoid varieties they don't actually understand. Does that make sense? I hope I'm making sense, LOL.

I would generally say yes. I tend to examine each color as it pops up in my herd. I have the benefit of living within reasonable driving distance to the person who has bred my Rex, SF and Woolys for 4 generations, so I don't get surprised often, but remember last year when I has working on understanding sable Rex? I don't really have a need to understand silvering in SF, in my barn they only come in one color (but I know how dilute works) and they are only bred to themselves.

And now both Angoras and JW have way more color variations than any of the other breeds I have, 32 I think, vs the 16 of Rex (and half of those are dilute of the main colors). My hollands are both torts. I have JW otters, which I am extremely familiar with, a seal and a sable marten. The sable marten will be the hardest of the colors, but it goes with my seal and otters, so I understand at least that much. And I know genetically what's not possible to get, even if I don't know all of the possible outcomes.

I study the SOP and scour the web for accurate color pictures. I am not just raising rabbits, I am a student of the fancy.