Is it really possible to cut costs?

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PulpFaction

PulpFaction

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
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Alaska
I've been thinking today about whether or not it's really possible to significantly cut costs when starting to raise rabbits.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that there really is no SURE way to do it. You can luck out and find a lot of nice second-hand cages and equipment, but other than that...

And rabbit food. Feed isn't cheap, and it seems the cheaper the feed the worse the rabbits do on it. Even my grain and hay diet is actually proving to cost more than the clumpy MannaPro full of fines. :/ No big deal, they're getting a better product, but I didn't really expect that to be the case!

Furthermore, I've collected a motley crew of cages, and HATE THEM! They cost me a lot in extra time and effort to keep clean, and they're definitely not as good for my rabbits as the set-up I'm lusting after.

I thought about wooden hutches, but with lumber prices the initial cost was comparable to wire cages, and would have to be replaced much sooner.

I've tried to cut costs on buying new crocks when water bottles were freezing up too fast by using tuna cans, as I had read others did. The rabbits thought they were toys! They tossed them everywhere, wasting a lot of feed if I tried putting food in them and immediately dumping their water if I tried using them for water. Off to the store I went for non-tip plastic cat dishes. (Not bad, under $2 a pop.)

When I tried to cut costs on my starter stock, I also got what I paid for. Not worth it. The next time I buy stock, I will save my pennies and bring them back on a trip down South or suck it up and have them shipped. (I got lucky with my Thriantas, but I'm not thrilled about the Silver Fox, or the Rex I previously had.)

Buying the cheaper hay resulted in trashing a whole bale due to mold. Trying the affordable home remedies (for both cost and the perceived health benefits for the rabbit,) simply resulted in no change or the rabbit getting sicker.

Seems this is just one of those hobbies you really can't afford to cut corners, huh?

What about the rest of you? Have you found any fail-proof penny pinchers that actually WORK?!
 
I think it must be more difficult to cut costs in Alaska than in Southern Ontario. I keep my costs down by keeping the rabbitry small. Putting them in a colony in a shed eliminated the need to buy new cages... my old ones are nearly done for. Hay is cheap here - I paid $3.25 a square bale this year for good alfalfa/timothy hay - and it goes a long way. I do feed grain, but the amount is fairly small. From April to November we feed a lot of gathered greens... Free! I dry some greens for winter and could do a lot more of that if I were better organized. The shed was built in 2003 mainly of pallet wood and the "furnishings" for the colony cost me nothing... all recycled or found. Rabbits are not too expensive around here either... $5-$10 for a decent meat mutt.

I'd like to say, however, that our rabbits have never looked better or happier than they do now. They love the relative freedom of the colony and being able to socialize. Their "cheaper" food gives them lots of variety and interest and they seem to thrive on it. It does take more work to gather greens than to feed manufactured feed, but by keeping our numbers small it is doable, here in Southern Ontario.
 
he he he
The issue with wooden cages, if yours are like mine, I have one guy that trims down a 2x4 in a day

I buy the after xmass/holiday plastic bowls at wally world, usually 4 for .25, or hit up value village for cheap dishes.
tuna cans work great, now the secret, YOU HAVE TO TIE THEM DOWN, zipties work as long the they can't bite them, cause they really like their toys, I have rings now and will use them next time. Home remedies work, if you know what you are doing and how to use it. Hay is ok now, but I had the worst case of mites in/on my last bale, I went out and everything was white with little bugs. yuck. as for quality lines...

Oh, do you know of any really good hay from the farms in the valley, cheaper than paying pet food warehouse and AKmill.


Oh and I like the metal dishes cause the don't crack in the cold, I destroyed 5 crocks trying to get the ice out.
 
If you take time to collect safe forages you can cut your feed costs down to near zero. I used to not feed my guinea pigs any purchased food over late summer to early fall. Mint, tomatos, raspberry bushes, prairie grass from the nearby wildlife preserve cut with a hand scythe (had permission), fresh clover, safe wildflowers, chicory, oxalis.... The land is full of herbivore food. I'd keep a few days worth in the bottom of the fridge in reused grocery bags and just divide a bag a day between the cages. This winter we got organic grass and clover/alfalfa hay for $6/bale and then cut the pellets, $15/50lbs, 50/50 with barley at $8/50lbs then add in some supplements like sunflower seeds. The protein is staying high from the clover/alfalfa plus the 17% the pellets start at but our feed cost is practically cut in half. If I was doing only grass hay I'd probably end up spending more because they'd have to eat a lot more to get enough nutrients between just grass hay and grain.

Biggest cost cut... the colony setup. We'd be $300 in cages poorer plus all the individual feeders instead of 1 large one and bottles or crocks instead of 1,5gallon chicken water plus heater base for winter.
 
There are a couple of things you can do if you have a place to put pens..instead of cages. Long and narrow...maybe 2'x4' for a single rabbit. The other thing you can do for cages...I know many don't like the idea of a wooden frame with wire, but that's what Mike's been making for me for the rabbits that can't go into colonies, and he figures it costs him $30 using 2x4s (ripped to 2x2 size) and regular cage wire. To make that even LESS, you can use chicken wire for the top, or even a side. I put a chunk of wood or a branch in the cages and have yet to have any of the rabbits chew on the cage itself.

cutting costs on feed really depends on where you are. Least expensive pellet I can get is $25/100#. If I buy oats, barley, and alfalfa (all grown locally), it cuts my costs in half. If I feel the need to up the protein, I can get pressed soy cake for the price of oats. (or just buy raw soybeans and take them to the neighbor to press).

I've found it's the same with the chickens over the years. Because I live in the middle of farming country, feed is less expensive.

Akane brought up a great subject for cutting costs...but it DOES take time and an area to dry the grasses/weeds/flowers in. :( A luxury many people don't have. Speaking of that....Akane, look for nettles, too. EXCELLENT nutrients for bun, and if you gather it using rubber gloves, then hang to dry for 2 days, it doesn't sting. Dandelions, too. My goodness but dandelions are high in protein and calcium and nutrients.

Waterers for winter....I rather like Maggie's double stacked tupperware type containers. OHOH!! if you have a Goodwill or similar, check it out for crocks, storage containers, pet carriers, etc. I once found a really nice scientific scale at Goodwill. It was priced at $.50 because no one knew how to use it and thought it was broken. :D I took it home, looked up the manufacturer and downloaded a manual. Accurate to .5 grams.
 
I actually really like the thin non-tip pet dishes. I haven't had one break yet, they're flexible so they're really easy to pop ice out of, and they're really not very expensive.

Perhaps if I had time, I could forage much more feed in the summer, but time spent foraging is time spent not working, so I have to take that into account and it becomes cheaper to just buy food. :) I thought about it a bit more, I guess my grain/hay diet is the same as the milled feed. A bag of MannaPro is the same price as a bag of oats. A bale of timothy is the same price as a bale of alfalfa. (At the feed store, there is half-way decent timothy in the valley and in Delta, but now I need Alfalfa and it doesn't grow here so that's moot.)

I do keep my meat rabbits and non-show rabbits in colony set-ups and that has saved me a lot of space and money, especially since the larger rabbits require larger cages. But, still have had only marginal luck keeping the Thriantas in condition in a colony setting. Actually, make that no luck. I'm also afraid that trying to cut costs by providing mostly forage would make for unreliable conditioning, too.

Jack, good idea on the zip ties with tuna cans. I think that might be a winner for feed cups.

For reference, a bale of alfalfa and a 50# bag of oats ran me $25 at the feed store. :) For my +/- 20 rabbits, mostly small/medium breed Thriantas, I am looking at $50-$75 a month. The bag of BOSS I need to go get right now is, I hear, on sale for $15. I need one of those every other month or so. Straw for bedding in the colony is about $12-$14 a bale. :/ Pine shavings are about the same for a bale of GEM Shavings, but I don't like them as much. A bale of Peat, about the same size as the shavings, is in the same price range. The absolute cheapest grain I can get is local barley at $12 for 50#. Hay and grain would be cheaper if I ordered it by the ton, but storage room is an issue.
 
Yip yip, forgot about the boss, now I gotta get another thing at the store
and the bulk feed is something I'd like to work at the club level
 
Cutting costs is a relative thing, and in Alaska things like yard sales and flea markets are probably few and far between. I would guess that it costs a small fortune to get rabbit stuff and cage wire shipped up there anyway. I think that Maggie's idea may be best under your circumstances. Rabbits like to chew up plastic stuff. Of course if you have different breeds of rabbits that you want to keep separate, that might require some planning. If you are raising only meat rabbits it may be a bit easier. There are all kinds of stuff you can use for crocks if you have flea markets. I used "soup cups" at first. If you are unfamiliar, they are like a straight sided bowl with a handle like a coffee cup. I would use a piece of wire to tie the handle to the wire (preferably in a corner) If you have a large enough tuna can, you can place it in a corner and tie a wire around it to the wire (in two places) about half way up the can, that works sometimes. You can also put a wood screw though the bottom of the (food)can into a short piece of wood under the cage. Makes it hard to clean, but will do in a pinch, but wont work when the water is freezing :roll: Good Luck ! try to solve one problem at time. I used old metal oven shelves to build my first cages.
 
Jack":1nguydto said:
Yip yip, forgot about the boss, now I gotta get another thing at the store
and the bulk feed is something I'd like to work at the club level
Click to expand...

I think that's a good idea. I'd be especially interested in networking with others that want to go on a natural diet. I'd ideally like a 3-grain blend (oats, barley, wheat) but I can't go through 150# of feed before it becomes older than I want it to be! Going in on a ton of Alfalfa would also be significantly cheaper.

I like the non-tip plastic because it has wide sloped sides on the dishes, the rabbits try to gnaw on it a bit but it seems uncomfortable for them to do that, and they don't seem to keep it up beyond a few little scratches.
 
I have rain, and so my chicken RUN has a roof made of that clear corrugated roofing, to help with the mud. I made a net that hangs under the rafters and dries weeds and such even when it rains(which it does even in summer). I then pack the bone dry weeds in old feed sacks...would you maybe be able to do something similar in AK?

Actually though, I also think cost cutting can be illusory. It is possible to make yourself so miserable with scavenged this or that that you give up completely. If it doesn't actually do the job it is intended to do, it is so annoying to mess with, and this includes stock that is ill or infertile or old. If you have the money to do the thing right, do yourself a favor, definately, and spend a few extra bucks at the outset.
 
eco2pia":30phtspo said:
Actually though, I also think cost cutting can be illusory. It is possible to make yourself so miserable with scavenged this or that that you give up completely. If it doesn't actually do the job it is intended to do, it is so annoying to mess with, and this includes stock that is ill or infertile or old. If you have the money to do the thing right, do yourself a favor, definately, and spend a few extra bucks at the outset.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I have found to be the case. Trying to save a few cents here or there ultimately seems to even out cost wise for me due to increased labor or other redistribution of costs (time, gas, stock or set-ups that don't perform optimally, etc.)

Sometimes, things are done a certain way and have "always" been done a certain way because theirs have gone before us and went through all the trial and error. I definitely appreciate the colony raising for meat rabbits, and I am liking the "natural" diet, but there is a formula for show rabbits, and varying it hasn't produced many good results for me yet.

For example, I know from experience that I will be willing and able to forage enough greens to supplement the buns in the summer and make them happy, but if I had to buy materials to build a place to dry things for winter use (corrugated plastic is around $20 a sheet here,) it would take a long time to pay for the difference and I'm not sure I would be as satisfied with the results.

I guess sometimes convenience is just king. :?
 
There are only a few ways that I've been able to save $$$ and be happy. I have found some good used cages on CL, but they're all different. That can be a real time consuming problem when feeding and watering, but I'm used to it now, so it's not too bad.

I get water bottle drinker valves (without the gaskets) at Woody's. The were $1 each, but I've heard they've gone up to $1.25. I use 2 liter bottles (I've offered 15 cents each, which is 3x what the recycle cost in OR is) or used water bottles (the Smart Water and Aquafina are my favorites). I buy ceramic feed bowls intended for dogs at the Dollar Tree. I prefer the big ones that hold 3 cups, but if they don't have them, I buy the small ones or the soufle dishes (in the people dept.) for $1 each. This outfits my feed and water needs for each cage at $4.80 per. That's less than a single J feeder and I have 2 of everything per cage. I use scrap wire for my hay racks and have them permanantly attached to the cages. I also have a pattern to cut 10 nestboxes out of one piece of plywood. I use 1/4" hardware cloth on bottoms.

Feed isn't as expensive for me, since I buy in large quantities. The hay I've been buying is $4 per bail, but is the nicest stuff I've seen. I go through at least a bail a week now.

Beyond that, I'm all about the tried and true methods and worry about varying things too much.
 
MaggieJ":vrvwz774 said:
Ann, those soybeans you feed sometimes. They would be roasted or steamed rather than raw, wouldn't they? I've heard that raw soybeans can cause real problems.
Click to expand...
When soybeans are pressed for the oil, it causes heat, which "roasts" the soybeans. That's one of the reasons why soybean meal or soyprotein is so inexpensive...it's actually a byproduct of the oil industry.

Depending on the pressing machine you get either a round flat "cake" or a long squished out cylinder of roasted soybean er...mush.
 
Time is the trade off for cost. If there was a way to do something faster for cheaper someone would already have made it mainstream. You spend time either collecting/building materials or observing individuals more in exchange for the convenience of spending more money on a homogenized predesigned feeding, caging, and care plan. Depends which you have to spend. Time and effort or money.
 
I dramatically cut the costs of my bills by finding a really great feed at $13.75/50lbs that the rabbits do so well on I don't have to feed supplements and in turn they don't molt as much so I don't have to vacuum the rabbitry as much (saving power) although I still sweep daily out of habit it doesn't cost me a thing.

I also stopped using litter in the drop pans, so what I have to clean the cages more but if I'm out in the rabbitry I might as well do something useful. Without litter my manure pit doesn't fill up as fast as it use too, and it is more manageable (I can only make so many gardens on 1/3rd of an acre). And I only have so many family members who'll garden with it.

Through my Dad's work we found a hay supplier for a small square bale for $3.75 instead of buying it at the feed store for $5.75, and now we're actually getting really nice quality meadow hay instead of the course stalky yuck splinter causing hay from the feed store.

I'm not a tyrant who doesn't give selection we have several trees on our property for the rabbits (willow, apple, mulberry, maple, pine) our property also backs onto a forest. Last year we let a huge patch of grass grow and I would cut it occasionally for the rabbits. We also have a huge patch of Parsley, carrots, beets, and radish in the garden specifically for the rabbits.

As for dishes I mainly use J feeders but I'll by ramekin dishes at the dollar store (2 large for a dollar or 3 small for a dollar). For traveling to shows. As for water bottles and crocks that latch on the side of the cage, if you buy from a supplier in bulk it's much cheaper then buying separately from a store.

Cages usually I'll buy them new from the maker but occasionally I'll find something on Kijiji for a decent price.
 
As Maggie said, I'm sure it's much harder for you to cut costs up there in Alaska than it is for us in the "Lower 48", or even in most of Canada. Here in Texas, I can get pretty good-quality cage wire from my local Tractor Supply Company, and I save a lot of money making my own cages.

I'm just a few miles from the local grain mill and can get the makings of my grain feed very inexpensively compared with the going rate of just about any brand of pellet feed you want to name. Alfalfa hay and coastal bermuda grass hay are both grown locally, so they're inexpensive, as well. (Timothy hay is another story.)

Not much here in the way of wild forage, other than that infernal bindweed, but at least the buns love it. This spring, I really want to get going with growing stuff like oat, wheat, and barley greens, raspberries, etc. for the buns. I already have roses--just need to get in the habit of collecting some of the leaves for them.

I've even been able to come up with decent rabbits for an affordable price, although I had to drive a ways for most of them. (Seems everyone here raises either Cals or NZWs and not much else.)

I guess the best suggestion I can think of for you is to grow as much as you can while you can (indoors, or greenhouse, maybe?).
 
Devon, cutting litter in pans and changing more often is a good idea. Do you have duratrays or regular metal ones? How do you prevent calcium deposits? I find that with some rabbits, even leaving urine in the pan over night will start crusting it up. I think I will be investing in duratrays first chance I get. I suspect it will increase their longevity with winter changing quite a bit. (Metal ones tend to, um, dent when knocked repeatedly against solid objects to loosen their frozen contents. Go figure.)
 
I put the stall ease stuff for horse in the pans, it helps cut the smell, I don't put litter in the pans, I just dump some snow in them and use putty knife to scrape it clean.<br /><br />__________ Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:00 pm __________<br /><br />Oh, but mine aren't frozen, if I had metal, I would put them in a warm place long enough to melt loose (not melt, just enough for the ice block to fall out)
And acid, or vinegar is great for removing the calcium in duratrays, but it eats galv
 

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