Injured Does Pics 533.8KB total

[MamaSheepdog]

Yesterday morning when feeding, I discovered that two 9week old does who were housed together had gotten into a fight. They each had one toe that was completely skinned, and the blue also seemed to have a broken toe on the other front paw.


I muzzled each patient with my cat muzzle (to cover their eyes more than to prevent biting) and treated them both by dripping colloidial silver onto the wounded toes, put some Furazone in a syringe and applied that, placed a small square of non-stick gauze on the injury, and wrapped the affected limb with cotton gauze, brown wrap (name?), and vetwrap. They were not bothered by the bandages, and hopped about normally. Of course, I put them in separate cages.


I went out to check them this morning, and the blue one is dead. It was 37F out, and the other seemed cold, so she is now in the house in a nestbox. I have plugged in my nestbox warmer for when I take her back outside.

Is it common for 9wk old does to fight like this? I haven't seen this behavior before. Neither doe had one of my "bunnybuckets" (5g plant pot) and I am wondering if they could have gotten too cold without one another to snuggle against. Is there any other treatment protocol I should be using? Should I give her something orally? Can I skin the other even though it is in rigor?

I am kicking myself because these were two "keepers" and I have been meaning to separate them for about a week but never did so, and now one is dead and the survivor is more severely wounded. Dang it!

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[akane]

Are your cages outside? Toe injuries are more commonly caused by something biting their feet through the floor wire. The rabbit arguments I've seen usually concentrated on ripping fur out of the shoulders and haunches as well as pulling each other to the ground by their scruffs. If there is a big size difference the smaller one can suffer a broken neck from being grabbed by the scruff and thrown around. They will scratch with their feet but I've never seen them go after each others feet or legs.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

I agree with Akane...looks more like something was biting their toes thru the cage wire. With fights, you would see more injuries on the head, face and body. I would imagine that your other doe died from being frightened....this can happen much later, after the fact.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Yes, they are outside, and these particular rabbits didn't have a hanging bucket so wouldn't have been able to get off of the wire. I have a friend that had 4 or 5 angoras, and she lost all but one to either a coon or a possum- it literally tore them limb from limb through the cage wire. We have a lot of cats, so don't have a lot of rodents around, but maybe it was a rat... guess I better set some traps. I'm going to make sure to get buckets into all the remaining cages that lack them as well.

Thankyou, akane! And you too, OneAcre! I was going to make an acronym of your name, but it would be "OAF"!!! LOL!)<br /><br />__________ Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:37 am __________<br /><br />Crap. The other doe just died. I'm going out to check everyone's toes. Husband is going to town today, sticky traps will be on the list. Let the freakin' rats chew their own toes off.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Oh, so sorry! What a sad way to lose them...Hopefully you can figure out what the issue is very soon. {{{hugs}}}

Question...were they on the bottom row? Could it have been your cats? I know one time my outside cats were "playing" and would hang out underneath the cage and try to get their feet....that was an isolation cage that was close to the ground like your bottom row...just a thought...

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Yes, they were on the bottom row. The one I found dead this morning was still in the same cage (it didn't have any new wounds), but the other was above. The cats have never shown any interest in the rabbits, but of course that doesn't rule out the possibility. Nonetheless, I plan on blocking access to the area under the cages to keep the chickens out anyway, and I am thinking of using something like "squirrel guards" on all of the posts to prevent climbing up or down by critters. Rats can jump, though, and the bottom tier is probably no more than 2' from the ground. <sigh> My husband mentioned that he always suspected we'd end up completely closing in the bunnybarn eventually. I guess we need to add yet another project to the list. Y'know, it cracks me up when cityfolk ask "but what do you do all day? Aren't you bored?" ROFL... I WISH I had time to be bored!

On a good note, all of the other rabbits are injury free. Let's hope they stay that way!

 

[MaggieJ]

I agree with Akane and One Acre... predator rather than a fight between the rabbits. Could be rats but I do wonder if perhaps it is a raccoon. Both are relentless predators... Your rabbits are going to need more protection and I am glad you have plans for it in the works.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Thanks, Maggie. Hubs has said to buy a wildlife camera from Cabella's. The cage that was attacked was in the rear, where a predator would feel safest because it could creep up behind the sheds, as opposed to the wide open space it would have to cross at the front. Tonight I am going to sprinkle Diatomaceous Earth powder over the surrounding area so if it returns I will be able to find prints.

I am inclined to think it was a rat- I was incorrect when I stated earlier that they didn't have a hanging bucket. I assume that if something was biting through the wire floor that they would be running about in a panic, and find safety in the bucket. But if the attacker was IN the cage, there would be no safe haven. Be assured that when I discover the culprit I will post the news.

Thanks again to everybody that has offered thoughts, suggestions, and commiseration. It certainly makes a sad situation easier to bear.

 

[LilFish_JWQueen(:]

wow ive never had to deal with that kind of situation but it sounds terrible. so sorry for your loss.

 

[ladysown]

could be rat, weasel, possum, coon etc.

for them to die afterwards could have been animal coming back and scared them. Could they have chewed their dressings at all?

 

[fuzzy9]

So very sorry for your loss!

 

[MamaSheepdog]

ladysown, their bandages were intact- they were better patients than our dogs, cats, and horses! I thought they would start chewing away immediately, but they seemed to not even realize they were there at all!<br /><br />__________ Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:51 am __________<br /><br />It happened again yesterday- I found 2 young rabbits with injuries. One with a skinned toe again, and the other with a swollen (possibly broken) rear hock. The one with the swollen hock died while I was in town yesterday, but the other, an adorable young broken buck, is still okay this morning. I didn't bother bandaging the toe this time since the last ones died- maybe it stressed them out somehow- but I did spray some Vetricin on it before I left.

The wounded rabbits are always in cages adjacent to the 4'x4' posts, and I think I have figured out the culprits. We have these adorable big-eyed mice (about the size of a Siberian Dwarf Hamster and just as cute), and I think they are climbing the posts and going after the pellets. When the little bunnies go to investigate, the mouse bites their toe, and when the rabbit shakes the bugger off, it takes the skin of the digit with it! Last night my JRT was after one behind the shed not more than 6' away from the BunnyBarn.

I bought 24 sticky traps yesterday, so I could block the little fiends from climbing the posts, and nailed those up last night. In case it's not just mousies, maybe something larger, I also bought an electric fence charger (good for 5 miles of horse fence!) and am going to use DT's idea and electrify a fence of hardware cloth. (Fried mouse, anyone?) I'm not sure how we are going to set it up so I can get in there to work, but we'll figure something out.

Has anyone used sticky traps on a vertical surface? Do you think they'll still get stuck? I didn't have any catches this morning, but on a good note, no more injured rabbits either. I am thinking it's a good thing it isn't hot anymore or the glue might run.

 

[ellistattoo]

Oh goodness, I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. Sounds like you're doing the right thing though, I would think the sticky traps would be effective.

 

[fuzzy9]

Wow, that is just crazy! TBH, I have never had any luck with those glue boards when I tried them. We used to get mice running along the patio window when we fed birds, and they never worked for us. They just got full of dirt and debris. I think you are going to have to do something more drastic. Best of luck! I hope you catch whatever is doing this!

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Thanks, Fuzzy! No debris on the boards yet, (or critters, dang it!), but then again it hasn't been windy lately... I am feeding their hay on the side of the cage furthest from the boards to limit hay fines from sticking. I have snap traps as well, but haven't put those out yet. I am going to put them in a nice inviting "tunnel" of pipe!

Bwa-ha-ha!!! Die, rodents, DIE!!!

 

[DumansArk]

Oh my goodness! I am so sorry; I know from experience how this feels and how it is to lose good stock and worse yet, 'keepers'.


Glad you have a good working JRT though! I have found they are more handy than my cats at keeping rodents gone.

A combination of snap and live traps may work if you can find places to place them too.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Thanks, Duman. I'm still totally bummed out about the losses. It seems like such a senseless waste- <sigh>. We'll get the problem solved, though.

I'm tidying the feed shed and am going to move all my potting supplies from behind the same shed, trying to minimize hiding places. We have an electric fence to get built too, but I'm gonna need some more fencing. I'm thinking 4 or 5 foot no-climb with 1/2" poultry netting or hardware cloth overlaying the bottom 2 feet. Wont keep a mountain lion out, but as far as I know we haven't ever had one inside our fence-line.

I'd love to see Feather kindle, so it is a good excuse to work in the area of the BunnyBarn! I'm going through a "Fall cleaning and organizing" binge right now anyway, and it was on the list, afterall!

 

[OneAcreFarm]

I would be really surprised if a mouse was the culprit...they aren't usually that aggressive... Rats, maybe, but mice usually just run away. Do you have a game camera or something else like that you can set up to catch snapshots of any critters running around at night?

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I would be really surprised if a mouse was the culprit...they aren't usually that aggressive... Rats, maybe, but mice usually just run away. Do you have a game camera or something else like that you can set up to catch snapshots of any critters running around at night?

These are BIG mice- imagine a Siberian Dwarf Hamster on steroids, with a tail. And they ain't no sissified city mice- there's snakes in them thar hills! And badger, possum, skunk, shrew, fox, coyote, caco-mistle, bobcat, mountain lion, and bear. Oh MY! Not to mention the predators of the sky... the only one missing is the Pterodactyl.

We are looking at different game cameras through Cabella's. Suggestions?<br /><br />__________ Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:19 pm __________<br /><br />I just wanted to let everyone know that since putting up the sticky traps I haven't had any more attacks. I am confident now that the injuries were caused by little mousies that bit the toes and when the buns flung them away they took the skin of the toe with them.

Also, the little broken buck is doing well, and the toe has healed with only a slight hairless area which may still regrow. I left him basically untreated whereas the first two does had the best nursing care I could give them and died anyway.

I guess it proves that sometimes things are best left alone despite our strong desire to help in any way we can.

 

[akane]

I never caught anything in sticky traps except wolf spiders. Not a bad thing though since I'm allergic to them and broke out every year prior to that. I suppose it would deter the mice from climbing if they want to avoid the sticky traps like mine always did.