Improving my Holland Lops... *update pictures 1/19*

[Teddy2511]

So.. Attached are some pictures of my present Holland herd, my black tort buck and the two does. I am trying to figure out what characterists I should work on improving first, and I would love some input from the experts out there. I am still fairly new to evaluating rabbits, and I'd love some help pinpointing the areas that most need improvement. Also any tips on how to train my rabbits to pose better, or even on their own, would be greatly appreciated!
(Sorry about the picture quality; them bunnies were not in the mood to pose for me!)

This first pictures are of my black tort buck Theodore (Teddy). He is super curious and active, so he really didn't want to sit still for a picture, lol! He is a false dwarf weighing in at 3.9lbs, and actually comes from some of the best lines in our area (though I know that doesn't necessarily mean anything!). His ears actually don't hang too badly, but he wouldn't let me get a good picture of them.

This is my sable point doe... Izzy is a true dwarf, just over two yrs old and weighs about 3 to 3.5 lbs. Temperment wise, she is really scared of leaving her cage and does not like being handled. I am hoping to replace her with her blue tort daughter who has a much sweeter temperment. She is pregnant right now and absolutely crabby (plus she's molting), so the pictures really don't show very much (sorry!).

Last but not least is my broken blue tort, junior doe, Mirage (Mimi). She got the best of both worlds when it came to temperment! She isn't quite as active as her sire, but can sometimes be just as curious!, nor as shy and grumpy as her dam. The only real flaw I find in her temperment is that she will nibble/nip at your fingers when she is done being posed and wants to go back to her cage (usually take a little while though). Mimi is really sweet and mellow, and she weighs 3.27 lbs at 4 months old (she actually looks very small though). The one conformation flaw that is very obvious though, is that she has "airplane" ears...

 

[3mina]

Firstly I will say I know nothing about Hollands. If you flip your buck over are his feet in a V? If they are, he's probably got pinched hips. In my meat herd that would make him a cull since I want nice big wide butts. That is the big thing that I see and I could be entirely wrong.

 

[skysthelimit]

The body seems like they have good bone. I won't say much more because of the posing, but the crowns are noticeable slipped, that's always a thing to work on. Check out these sites for a visual picture.

http://oakridgerabbitry.weebly.com/holl ... -type.html

http://www.hillsborohollands.com/Breeding.html

I's say more, but I need to get back in bed Been sick my whole winter break, glad I had RT to keep me company.

 

[Bill]

I would agree that they have good bodys but the crowns need work. The buck and doe have narrow (front to back) crowns that are slipped. The little one has a much better crown in those respects but is narrow from side to side, thus the "airplane" ears.

They all appear to have good bone. Have they been taken to any shows?

 

[Peach]

Well this is my feedback. Please don't take it the wrong way! Im just extremely honest >.<

They all seem to have good bone, but your heads are weakpoint. Your buckseems very pinched (assuming by the way his legs stick out). I think your best (judging by the pictures given) is your jr. Doe. Her ears might not be the bet right now, but I think she will grow into her head very nicely, I really like her overall type and her teaspoon shape ears. The others have a noticeable fold to them. I can't really say if the other two are long in body or not because they aren't pose the best. Show them some to find out more about them.

One key component in my barn : I'm very harsh on herd sires. I want them to be the best animal jn my Rabbitry. There is something I want in him in all my babies.

Questions to ask yourself:
What's the show history? Production history? Have they poduced babies that do well on the table?Does this line do well locally? Nationally?

Check out the Nature Trail website. They got an awesome amount of info on Hollands

 

[DumansArk]

I have no knowledge to add but wanted to say that the 1st pic of Mimi: she looks like this cute little sculpture! So TINY!

(***NOOOO! I can't have Hollands! Where is that ANTI Flare-Up Rabbitosis pill??)

 

[Teddy2511]

Thank you so much for all the input!

Well this is my feedback. Please don't take it the wrong way! Im just extremely honest >.<

Don't worry, I appreciate honesty! Without it, how would I find my faults?

If you flip your buck over are his feet in a V? If they are, he's probably got pinched hips.

Yes, his back feet are in a bit of V shape, and i would agree that his hips are not how I would like them.

Check out these sites for a visual picture.http://oakridgerabbitry.weebly.com/holl ... -type.htmlhttp://www.hillsborohollands.com/Breeding.html

Oh, I love the pictures; those will really help!

Have they been taken to any shows?

The buck and junior doe have not, and I don't know about the older doe. I would love to take them to a couple of shows and get to enjoy the shows myself, but I don't have a lot of family support yet. For the time being I'll have to see if my younger siblings want to take them to any county fairs, and get what input I can from other breeders.

They all seem to have good bone, but your heads are weakpoint. Your buckseems very pinched (assuming by the way his legs stick out). I think your best (judging by the pictures given) is your jr. Doe. Her ears might not be the bet right now, but I think she will grow into her head very nicely, I really like her overall type and her teaspoon shape ears. The others have a noticeable fold to them. I can't really say if the other two are long in body or not because they aren't pose the best. Show them some to find out more about them. One key component in my barn : I'm very harsh on herd sires. I want them to be the best animal jn my Rabbitry. There is something I want in him in all my babies. Questions to ask yourself:What's the show history? Production history? Have they poduced babies that do well on the table?Does this line do well locally? Nationally?

The sr. doe does have a significant fold to her ears, and the buck does as well (though his isn't quite as bad). I would not be suprised if the buck is a little long in body, and he is somewhat pinched, but considering that he is a false dwarf I am generally pleased with his chunky body for so little weight. I would love to be more harsh on my herd, but first I want to find their weakest points and buy or breed a good replacement. The jr. doe will be replacing the sr. doe in a few more months, and I am presently looking for better stock from close bloodlines to add to my herd, including a herd sire and a new doe or two.

I have no knowledge to add but wanted to say that the 1st pic of Mimi: she looks like this cute little sculpture! So TINY!(***NOOOO! I can't have Hollands! Where is that ANTI Flare-Up Rabbitosis pill??)

Thanks! That little girl stole my heart months ago, and even once her breeding days are over, she has pet home with me forever (and so does her sire; he is the rabbit that started this all)!

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

I must say your buck and doe did out produce themselves.. your buck doesn't really have much of a crown but the older doe has a better one, so your junior doe did luck out and get the best of both parents.. now moving forward with the jr I would say finding a buck thats the best you can afford but has a strong crown with that needed side to side width and for sure a good unpinched hindend and her equal in bone or better.. but congrats on the excellent Jr.!

 

[Teddy2511]

I must say your buck and doe did out produce themselves..

Who knows the reason, but I'm glad they did! She actually looks more like several of the rabbits farther up on her sire's pedigree, then she does like her actual parents. The crowns on her mother's side have a tendency to be slipped, but on her father's side they look better the farther up you go.

now moving forward with the jr I would say finding a buck thats the best you can afford but has a strong crown with that needed side to side width and for sure a good unpinched hind end and her equal in bone or better.. but congrats on the excellent Jr.!

Thanks, I really appreciate having an idea of what type of buck to look for.<br /><br />__________ Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:39 pm __________<br /><br />I have been looking around at bucks for awhile now... I was wondering if a buck like this one would be a good choice:

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm still new at this!
Another thing I've noticed about my sr. doe (and something she has a habit of handing down) is thin ears. Should I work on that at the same time as the crown, or should I do one at a time?

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

I's say more, but I need to get back in bed Been sick my whole winter break, glad I had RT to keep me company.

That is to bad sky.. I hope you feel better very soon.

 

[Teddy2511]

Just for fun...

Here's a pic from Izzy's most recent litter (4 weeks old now). Bkn sable point in the back and bkn tort in the front:

I was naughty this time (and also forgot my dates ), so Izzy was bred on 12/31/12 and will be due when her present babies are 7.5 wks old... :shock: Poor Izzy; wish I'd checked my dates again! I guess these little ones will have to get weaned a little earlier this time. :bunnyhop:

 

[Peach]

I must say your buck and doe did out produce themselves..

Who knows the reason, but I'm glad they did! She actually looks more like several of the rabbits farther up on her sire's pedigree, then she does like her actual parents. The crowns on her mother's side have a tendency to be slipped, but on her father's side they look better the farther up you go.

now moving forward with the jr I would say finding a buck thats the best you can afford but has a strong crown with that needed side to side width and for sure a good unpinched hind end and her equal in bone or better.. but congrats on the excellent Jr.!

Thanks, I really appreciate having an idea of what type of buck to look for.

__________ Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:39 pm __________

I have been looking around at bucks for awhile now... I was wondering if a buck like this one would be a good choice:

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm still new at this!
Another thing I've noticed about my sr. doe (and something she has a habit of handing down) is thin ears. Should I work on that at the same time as the crown, or should I do one at a time?

This buck looks pretty good. I think he lacks a lot in bone, but he seems to have nice type.

Here's a few links to help you with picking and choosing Hollands.

http://www.thenaturetrail.com/rabbit-ju ... land-lops/
http://www.thenaturetrail.com/rabbit-ju ... op-pieces/
http://www.thenaturetrail.com/rabbit-ju ... -lop-head/

 

[skysthelimit]

I agree with Peach. Do you think his doe has enough bone to make up for it, or would you look for another?

 

[Teddy2511]

I agree with Peach. Do you think his doe has enough bone to make up for it, or would you look for another?

This buck is only one that I noticed on a breeder's website, and from all things said, I don't think I want a buck with less then equal bone to the doe I already have. Mimi has okay bone, but even her's I would like to improve a little, so I don't want to compromise when it comes to finding a good buck. She is just over 4 mo now and I would like to have a good new herd buck in place before it is time to breed her.

Does anyone have any pictures of good bucks that I can compare to?<br /><br />__________ Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:02 pm __________<br /><br />I may have a chance to go to an ARBA show on Saturday... Should I look into getting a new buck then, or should I wait and plan/research a little longer first?

 

[Attal.Rabbits]

I dont know anything about changing rabbits looks but i just wanted to tell you, you have some adorable rabbits!

 

[ZRabbits]

Don't know much about Holland Lops, but do think you have some lovely Hollands. The babies are just so cute! Wishing you all the luck in your Holland venture.

Karen

 

[Dood]

. her present babies are 7.5 wks old... Poor Izzy; wish I'd checked my dates again! I guess these little ones will have to get weaned a little earlier

Most people start weaning at 4 weeks. Making milk is very draining on a doe, especially a pregnant one. They are more than ready to be weaned.

 

[Teddy2511]

I dont know anything about changing rabbits looks but i just wanted to tell you, you have some adorable rabbits!

Thank you!

And welcome to Rabbittalk! :welcome:

__________ Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:13 am __________

Don't know much about Holland Lops, but do think you have some lovely Hollands. The babies are just so cute! Wishing you all the luck in your Holland venture.

Karen

Thanks! I have not had my Hollands for long, but I am already head over heels in love with these cuties!

Most people start weaning at 4 weeks. Making milk is very draining on a doe, especially a pregnant one. They are more than ready to be weaned.

I normally have my kits completely weaned around 6-7 weeks old, but with this litter I'm think it will turn out to be 5-6 weeks. I would do it sooner as you suggested if I though it possible, but these two kits only just started eating pellets 5 days ago, and they are still working on the water. Right now I am focusing on giving mom time away from the babies by taking them out of the cage for periods of time during the day.<br /><br />__________ Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:07 pm __________<br /><br />I palpated on the 13th and I'm pretty sure there's something in there...
I'm planning to remove the other kits once they are 6 weeks old. I don't want to cause too much upheaval for the present kits, but I do want Izzy to get at least a week off between litters.

Any suggestions on supplemental foods or other ideas on how to give the present kits an easier transition? I really don't like weaning until they are 7wks usually, so I'd like to make this go as smoothly as possible for them and me!

Also, does anyone know how I can decide if I have a fuzzy Holland kit? In the pictures below the bkn sable point kit has fur that is a fair bit longer than the bkn tort's...

This is the first fluffy kit I've had, but I'm not sure that he's a fuzzy.. Will he maybe just grow into it?

 

[siddsaysgimmie]

I would say that the broken SP is a fuzzy. The broken tort is adorable.

 

[Peach]

aww you got a fuzzy xD That is one thing Holland breeders hate to show up because they are usually the best of the litter, but what can you do You now know that the buck and doe from this breeding carry the "fuzzy" gene. Some breeders will cull for that reason because they know that all the babies have the possibility of making it, or you can work around it and just cull the fuzzies when they occur.

When I got my first "fuzzy" to try out,I didn't know there was a war going on with "Holland Fuzzies" and "American Fuzzy Lops". You can sell them, but put clearly on the pedigree that it is a HOLLAND fuzzy. Some people use them to improve upon their AFL's but some don't feel they need to. Some breeders want "true" AFL's that are AFL in most if not all generations.

Holland Fuzzies show very well, but they can't be registered. My AFL was really a Fuzzy Holland but the breeder was a registar and trick the system when we noticed that a lot of the big name breeders on their were strictly Holland breeders. Just a tad bit shady!

Be honest on your pedigree and know that offspring and the parents hide that fuzzy gene. If you pet them out, do tell people about their special needs. A wire cage will be best for them because shavings will get all tangled up in their wool. Some also need you to run your fingers or a comb every few days. Just depends on their wool quality. Some mat easier than others.<br /><br />__________ Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:06 am __________<br /><br />

Does anyone have any pictures of good bucks that I can compare to?

Check out the links I sent you. They are really helpsful with Hollands. Compare to their GC. You probably won't find anything EXACTLY like them, but it puts a picture in your mind