I have not wanted to ask about this because I'm afraid of the answer but here goes. My 2.5 yr doe started wobbling. When she tries to scratch her ear she almost falls over. She has a good appetite, I've been turning her out to watch her move. She hops and runs fast but today ran into a tree. Then ran into something in the garage. It is normal for her to be turned out and graze then come into the garage where I am. Her babies are 11 weeks old. I processed yesterday but kept a female. She has had 5 litters I believe. Have you seen the wobbling behavior and then loss of eyesight?
I think my doe went blind
- Thread starter Scooter1A
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It sounds like she may be suffering from an E. cuniculi infection. It's a protozoan or fungus (the people who study it aren't positive) that proliferates in the eye, brain, or other parts of the central nervous system. E. cuniculi symptoms often appear during or after stressors like travel or breeding. It can be progressive - producing blindness, rolling, wry neck - so IMO it would be a good idea to treat her for it.
Here is a recent discussion, with details and possible treatments:
https://rabbittalk.com/threads/head-tilt.37440/#post-363690
Thank you. I have ivermectin liquid. Can I dose her by putting on back of neck or does she have to eat it?
I've always used the paste, put in the rabbit's mouth. If you have pour-on, everything I've read suggests you can apply it to her skin.
Maybe someone who's used it topically can respond.
Here we'd need to ask the vet for medication.
Also be carefull with handling her and meat of other possibly infected rabbits. I came across a cat owner feeding raw who ended up with the cat getting this bug via a rabbitmeal. So it can cross to at least one other species.
Also be carefull with handling her and meat of other possibly infected rabbits. I came across a cat owner feeding raw who ended up with the cat getting this bug via a rabbitmeal. So it can cross to at least one other species.
OK thank you. I will do something today. She seems OK this morning. No neck or head problems. The buck is caged right up next to her so he will get a treatment also. Her kits were taken out at 5 weeks so the remaining one may be fine. I think so. I saw nothing weird when butchering the other 5. Perhaps I should start a regiment of ivermectin, say every 3 months. This is my first rabbit illness.
I agree with @tambayo; it's best to reserve ivermectin - in fact, most drugs - for treatment when you are reasonably sure it's appropriate and needed. Prophylactic use of medications is linked to the development of resistant organisms. IMO treating just your doe would be the way to proceed, unless the buck starts to look like he's having issues.
E. cuniculi can be passed to and cause problems in immunocompromised people, so be conscious of that.
As far as researchers know, E. cuniculi is quite widespread, and many or most rabbits have been exposed, but it does not always cause obvious problems. Some rabbits seem more susceptible than others, and as I mentioned in the previous post, like many other diseases, symptoms are frequently triggered by identifiable stressors. In general, I won't breed animals that have become symptomatic, but we did have a Mini Rex, Moonlight, who bred successfully for years after recovery, and her offspring never had any problems. In fact we never had another Mini Rex suffer from it, and it was years and a move to a different home and rabbitry before we saw it again in an unrelated rabbit.
https://rabbittalk.com/threads/rabbit-with-hole-in-lip-and-a-rabbit-with-ec.36885/#post-357884
https://rabbittalk.com/threads/unbalanced-17-day-old-kit.37223/#post-361268
Here are some technical papers regarding the organism and its action in rabbits:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9785705/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7337189/
And this is an article from the House Rabbit Society, which I don't usually rely on for information because of certain biases generally present in their publications, but this one has a lot of data from a study on E. cuniculi they did in California:
https://rabbit.org/health/e-cuniculi/
This morning she seemed less wobbly. She was ready to eat breakfast. Cleaned cages, gave both adults drops of iver on their necks. 1% injectable. Used the myco stuff in their eyes. There is no weeping. Their eyes look normal to me. Time will tell. Thanks for the help.
Very good to know. Thanks for warning about this.
MsTemeraire
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Is ivermectin effective for EC? Here we use Fenbendazole.
Fenbendazole is standard here too.
And just a quick read up tells me it is a long haul medication wise (1-3 months and sometimes for life) and it doesn't kill the EC, it just makes it unable to continue infecting cells.
I don't know about keeping such an animal, certainly if she is intended as breeding stock.
And just a quick read up tells me it is a long haul medication wise (1-3 months and sometimes for life) and it doesn't kill the EC, it just makes it unable to continue infecting cells.
I don't know about keeping such an animal, certainly if she is intended as breeding stock.
She is retired from breeding now. She seemed good today, not so wobbly. No head tilt at all.
Ivermectin is used to combat a parasite that causes River Blindness in African countries. I am not saying that is what the problem is, I am just saying that if it is a parasite that has migrated to the eyes, Ivermectin may help. I would contact a Vet though. Proper and sufficient dosage would be very important to stop the progression of whatever it is.
That's an interesting point about both parasites lodging in the eye, especially since researchers are not completely sure what they're dealing with. E. cuniculi was originally classified as a protozoan. I think current consensus is "microsporidian," which doesn't get you that much closer to a truly helpful definition since there is ongoing debate about how they fit in the Linnaean system of classification. Most of the recent stuff I've read is calling them a fungus, or a group related to fungi.
This seems to be a pretty good review of the relatively recent research on E. cuniculi, though it was published in 2014, so there may be newer studies:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7337189/
I don't know if a vet is going to be of any help with figuring out a dosage for ivermectin since it would be an off-label use of that drug. Fenbendazole (one brand name is Safeguard in the U.S.) is, I believe, more commonly recommended, though again, I'm not sure if a vet will prescribe that or not. I don't take my rabbits to the vet since there really aren't rabbit-savvy vets around here, and I cannot afford them anyway. And both drugs are available OTC. My suggestion would be to look up normal rabbit-safe dosages. Here's a thread:
https://rabbittalk.com/threads/ear-mites-please-help.36834/post-357320
I can report that I have had success in relieving symptoms I suspected were due to E. cuniculi with three different drugs: ivermectin, fenbendazole, and neomycin sulfate. Both ivermectin and fenbendazole are anthelmintics (wormers) but have also been shown to have therapeutic effects in a broad range of other problems.
Fenbendazole is known to have anthelmintic, antifungal, and anti-cancer actions:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3580766/
https://www.oncotarget.com/article/28014/
Ivermectin was originally investigated as an anthelmintic but has also been indicated as a useful antibacterial, antiviral, anticancer, asthma, epilepsy and neurological disease treatment:
https://www.nature.com/articles/ja201711
Neomycin sulfate is an old antibiotic used in both humans and animals for infections in the gastrointestinal tract.
My suspicion is that each of these drugs may have different roles to play in suppression of E. cuniculi, a parasite of the kidney, eye, and/or CNS, with the drugs possibly acting directly on the parasite, or impacting other, related problems.
From what I've read, no drugs have been found that actually eliminate E. cuniculi, rather they suppress its over-proliferation. Internationally, veterinary studies have estimated that 40%-80% of pet rabbits test positive serologically for the presence of/exposure to E. cuniculi, with only a few rabbits suffering symptoms.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7337189/
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Fungus maybe. It was hot and sultry for a week or so, mushrooms popping up in the yard. So .... Today she is still happy and seems normal but she's still a bit off balance while scratching. She knows to catch herself. This rabbit has been so sweet and produced nice meat babies. I'll do what I can. There is no vet around that has a clue on anything around here. I will drop in and have a chat with them though. Thanks for the advice to all, I can always depend on this site for help. Love you rabbit friends.
Today Lulu is having alot of trouble not rolling. I've let her out to get exercise and she goes to her spot and lays. There she can eat some leaves and a little grass. Her paralysis seems to be worse today though. She is so sweet and doesn't seem to be in pain at all. She eats, drinks a little. Hasn't liked her pellets for a long time but prefers fresh greens. I'm thinking of just bringing her in to the house in a big cage. I'm also tempted to take her to the vet. I believe she can see. She is 2.5 and has lots of babies. I dunno, I never tried the antibiotics. Her poo is normal. Do vets know how to put a rabbit to sleep? I will ask them. Poor Lulu she has been such a nice friend.
She is much better today. She had stopped drinking and couldn't hop at all without falling. I used Safeguard for 8 days. She wouldn't take it anymore so put ivermectin on her neck yesterday. I am very happy with the way she is acting today. It's been a long, worried haul. Hope she keeps getting better. YEA
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