I think I made a bad call

[ColdBrook]

I'm feeling pretty bad about my recent decisions with my latest litters.

I took two kits from my doe Poppy, who kindled the day after my SF doe, Summer. Since she had such a small litter (3) and one had what was presumably an omphalocele and was culled, I figured I'd breed her right back again. If she's only going to have 2-3 at a time, she's not a keeper but I didn't want to cull based on the first litter. So, I put Poppy's 2 in with Summer's 6 and rebred Poppy. Summer seemed to be doing a good job feeding the kits when I'd take them up to her morning and evening...until today. Today, Summer doesn't want to feed them and I think she injured one when I tried to put her in and hold her in the nesting box hoping they'd all get something. It sort of worked. Most of the kits look plump again but one SF kit is so scrawny. I flipped Summer (have lots of scratched to show for that!) and put the kit on her. It sucked frantically and greedily at 5 nipples but its tummy still looks as thin and wrinkly as ever. Was it because Summer was stressed over me forcing her maybe? It finally gave up trying and just laid there. It had milk on its face though. Then, I took Poppy out and flipped her thinking she may still have milk as I just took her two kits yesterday. She did, and cooperated much better than Summer had, but the kit was too worn out to nurse. Do I divide the litter and give a couple back to Poppy, even though she was just bred again? Will she start drying up soon because of the breeding? Would giving her two kits back be safe?

My other doe, Chloe, full sister to Poppy, had her kits today. I was kind of hoping for a smallish litter so I could maybe foster to her if needed, but she had 12!!! However, I went up an hour later to check her 12 and there's only 11. The ONE white kit out of the dozen kits is just...gone. Vanished. Nothing could have gotten into or out of that cage. Where did that white kit go? Should I take the rest of hers out too? I have the one nestbox of 8 (Summer and Poppy's combined) in the house that I'm taking up to Summer 2 x a day. Does taking the kits and only returning them for feeding make the doe less likely to be a good mom? Should I just back off, let nature take its course and not second guess it?

I wish I'd taken Summers kits and given them to Poppy instead of the other way around. I suspect that my SF doe just isn't going to be the good Mom I was hoping for. I'm just agonizing over it all and really second guessing myself and my choices lately. Anyone know how I can fix it?

 

[MaggieJ]

I'd give Poppy back her two kits. In a colony, does are often bred as soon as they kindle and the kits do just fine. With only two to feed, Poppy should be able to manage fine.

 

[ColdBrook]

Thanks Maggie...Do you think I should give her just the two or maybe give her two of the SF kits as well?


I almost forgot! Here is a picture of Chloe's litter...minus the white kit (did I maybe dream it?).

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I agree that you should give her kits back, but I would be inclined to give her two SF kits as well, at least for the first few days since two might not be able to keep each other warm enough.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

I agree that you should give her kits back, but I would be inclined to give her two SF kits as well, at least for the first few days since two might not be able to keep each other warm enough.

The warmth issue makes me agree...fewer kits means smaller collective body mass.

 

[ColdBrook]

Well, that didn't work as well as I'd hoped either. I gave Poppy her two and the one scrawny SF kit and one other SF kit. She messed all through the nesting box. The babies are now soaked and dirtied and were uncovered and left exposed. I brought them all back in, put them back in with the others after cleaning and warming them a bit. I've little hope for the one SF kit. I don't expect him to be alive come morning. He's just so thin now. I'll put them all in with Summer in the morning and hope for the best. I really do not want to lose my first litter of SF kits!

 

[JessicaR]

I have never had any luck trying to save the runt kits. My doe had 10 kits 1 doa, and 1 runt I tried several times to get the runt to eat I tried flipping the doe and just leaving that one with her, no luck! It died in a couple of days. So that left her with 8 kits to raise... yesterday I was doing my check on them, and there was only 7 left :shock: There is no way it could have got out and the wire is small so nothing could get in. The only thing I can think is the kit died and the doe ate it to keep the box clean. That is probably what happened to your white kit.

 

[Disney]

My doe hurt all her kits with every nursing, scars on their back, shoulder, one with a huge cut on his lips and another with a teared ear. So i took the kits out with the whole nest and put everything in a cardboard box. Put the box in the hutch with the doe but she wouldn't feed them.
Next day i bought kitty milk but i struggled feeding them, i thought they were chocking and i might kill them if i continued. Then i took the doe out of her hutch and put her in the box with the kits, i held her right hindleg with my left hand so she couldn't kick or jump and clammed my right hand around her right foot across her neck so she couldn't move her front and head either.
If i let loose, she would bite the babies as she has done before so now i make sure she can't move an inch and let the babies freefeed on her. I always thought doe's held their milk in if you force them but she actually lets her milk go so the babies are getting fed. After 5 minutes they fall on their back to sleep with fat bellies. Later i make them pee and let them sleep untill their next feed.

They are now 12 days old and are doing fine.
This is the first time a doe hurt her babies, and the first time i had to pull a litter so i'm kinda new to this but im relieved its working out.

Try what i did, hold her in the box with her face, facing your chest and bend lighty over her to cover her head with your sweater. Grab her hind on the right side with your left hand en pull the leg up a little so the kits can reach her belly easier. Use your right hand to pull her foot on the right side against her shoulder and clam your fingers around her neck so her whole right side is higher off the ground. she will resist a little but then finally calm down untill it's over.

I hope it works for you!