i know .. another snuffles question snuffles?lol

[cjrabbitry]

trying to get some opinion on a few questions i havnt been able to get a clear answer to.

1. how contagious is snuffles? and how is it passed?

2. if a rabbit comes down with snuffles.. do you norm/ put down or try and cure it.(i ask because this last year i bought a extremely nice doe that cost quite a bit.. one week latter she come down with it. i got her over it but it has come back a few times. the last time being this week after she had a litter of kits.and ended up culling her.)

3. if a doe comes down with snuffles will the kits all get it usually, and should you foster them out or might they pass it on to another litter of kits/nursing doe.

4. what is the BEST way to keep snuffles out of rabbitry and once you have a case or two of it, what is the best way to make sure you don't continue to get it.

this all stems from this one rabbit that my fiance had to have at the arba show last year. great looking jr nz red doe but man she ha caused us a lot of grief and now she had to be culled do to how bad she was and all but 2 of her kits died. plus now have two jr's that seem to be coming down with it that are close to her.

thanks for reading and any help is appreciated.

 

[cereshill]

I will try to help you as I just went thru this:

1. very contagious---airborne and spread via sneezing
2. they can go into remission, but will get it again. Cull
3. I had a prize doe get it with her litter of 7 on the day she delivered. All came down with snuffles and started starving due to the inability to feed. I wanted to see what happened---now I know.
All were culled.

DO NOT FOSTER THEM OUT!

4. if it shows up, cull. Breed for stronger resistant stock. Keep as closed a herd as you can.

CH

 

[MaggieJ]

Always, always, always quarantine a new rabbit, well away from your herd. Put stringent biosecurity measures in place and treat the rabbit as though it has the plague. Since snuffles tends to show up under stress (and moving to a new home is a major source of stress for rabbits) keeping the rabbit in isolation for at least a month gives plenty of time for symptoms to show up. Yes, it is a pain in the neck... but not as bad as bringing snuffles into your herd.

Incidentally, I bring rabbits in only when absolutely necessary. The more new rabbits, the greater the chance one will be infected.

 

[Brody]

Pasturella is said to be present in about 80 -90 percent of rabbits in North America
not all show symptoms and not all get sick enough that most people would notice-
bad outbreaks can often be related to stress of some sort

it is airborne - but doesn't live all that long out of the host ..

 

[ladysown]

depends on your needs and desires.

If you breed to sell to others or show...snuffles not such a good thing.

IF only breeding for personal use....not as big a deal because you can eat anything that gets it.

You will find people ALL over the place on this issue.
MOST will say kill immediately. If a rabbit sneezes without the cause being known, some people will immediately kill it out. MOST will say if it sneezes and blows any colour of snot...kill it.

BUT SOME will say...treat the symptons and only kill them if it comes back.
and others will simply not worry about the occasional sneeze with snot other than the colour white - if it's just occasional.

I deliberately use the word KILL because cull can mean sell, remove, release, kill. YOU DO NOT want to pass on a snotty rabbit. You don't want to release it or keep it. You want it GONE without a chance to infect others.

Now snuffles is funny in how rabbits respond to it.

You can have ONE animal in your herd show signs. And never have another rabbit show signs of it.

OR you can have one rabbit show signs and then have it's neighbours come down with it and then rabbits two rows down and over get it and everyone in the middle be fine. Could they all be carriers? I don't know. Could they all show signs down the road? I don't know. No one can really tell you either.

Some rabbits will sneeze ONCE with snot and you'll never see another sign of it, others rabbits will get a weepy eye. and then you'll get other rabbits that will have snot flying every which way.

Some rabbits will be carriers their entire lives and never show signs of it and may possibly infect others so all in all it's a no blame game. The only time you can blame is if the buyer sells you a snotty animal AND you take that animal.

How is one to know if they have an entire herd of carriers? I don't know...do you? Don't think anyone could tell you that definitely.

ALL you can do is breed for health, and that means removing from your herd any animal that is in some way compromised. A litter (all but one) gets entretis when other litters are fine? Keep the one that is fine and kill the rest (don't sell 'em as breeders) AND don't repeat that breeding. You get a litter that sneezes (with or without snot) but all others are fine ... might be allergies... might not be. get rid of them.

Look at everything from a health stand point, and help them get used to stressful situations. Move them from one cage to another. Don't do things the same way all the time. If they react badly to changes in a relatively similar environment, you don't want to breed them.

anywho...it's getting late and I don't want to ramble on too long. but I hoped that helped.

 

[MaggieJ]

According to Pat Lamar, there are many different strains of Pasteurella and that seems to be one reason why there are such differences in how it manifests itself. Some seem to be more virulent than others. Here's what she had to say in a recent Snuffles thread on Homesteading Today's rabbit forum:

P. multocida is comprised of a wide variety of bacteria, not just one. It would take a multitude of testing in each and every case to determine what bacterias are involved, as well as having to treat each one individually. This would be literally cost prohibitive when it comes to rabbits. And, as such, a "cure" for one rabbit would not necessarily work for another. Thus, it is easier to simply cull.

Pat Lamar

Here's the link to the whole thread on HT: http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showth ... p?t=361320

 

[Anntann]

What WOULD you use to try to "cure" it in a rabbit?

 

[ladysown]

people use a variety of things to treat the symptoms.
novo trimel can help (vet prescribed)
benedryl, some use tetracycline, penicillin (can't recall right now what type),

the only permanent treatment from what I've read is a LONG course of Baytril.

 

[Anntann]

Interesting problem, this.
Sorry if this link has been shown before, but I found http://www.lbah.com/rabbits/pasteurella.htm to be fascinating. (some pictures that are NOT for the sensitive souls amongst us) Good shot of the uterus of a healthy female - shows the horns quite nicely.

 

[Brody]

I believe I have spoken here about the variety of strains of pasturella as well Maggie - there is lots of reserach that shows that 'pasturella' is not one simple infection but can be quite varied - ranging from mild sneezing to fatal before symptoms show ...

 

[cjrabbitry]

thanks guys for all your help.. i think first sign of color when sneezing and they are going to be culled.. i have lost a total of 38 rabbits (kits dreeding does and jrs) in the last week to this stuff. and im not going through it again.(I HOPE!!!!!!)

 

[Brody]

38 rabbits of how many in a week?
that's a pretty virulent strain if they are dying not being culled to this

sorry for all your losses

 

[Miss M]

i have lost a total of 38 rabbits (kits dreeding does and jrs) in the last week to this stuff.

WOW! That's scary stuff!

 

[cjrabbitry]

let me refrase.. 38 that had to be culled.32 kits three does and three jrs. i dont have a big rabbitry .. around 30 hole..
again thanks for all the help!!

 

[ottersatin]

If you have a rabbit in your barn which is showing any signs
that it may be infected with Snuffles/Pasteurella, GET it out of the Barn
and as far away from the other rabbits as possible! It may already be
too late to prevent an outbreak of monumental proportions.
Quite a few years ago, before I started practicing strict Culling
and breading towards disease resistance I was force to cull/put down
over a third of my herd. I had about one hundred rabbits.
It was painful but it proved to be the best decision I ever made.
If you find a sneezing rabbit or a weepy-eyed rabbit move them away from the herd.
Feed and care for them last after all the other members have been fed and watered.
Pasteurella can be carried on your person and or clothes. After caring for
the ill rabbits change your clothes you do not want to carry the germs to any healthy rabbit.
The disease is carried through the air when rabbits sneeze. It IS extremely contagious!
DO NOT play around with this disease, the herd you save could be your own.
This disease could possibly wipe out your whole herd.
A word to the wise is sufficient.
Dennis, C.V.R.

 

[LadyKarli]

This may have already been answered but is it okay to eat a snuffly rabbit?

 

[-HRanchito]

yep. Am eating one now. Cook well

Hey guys, this has been keeping me up at night -- What percentage of breeders do you think actually practice strict culling for health? Is there some percentage that just keep rabbits full of sneezy sick animals and don't give a crap? Do a certain percentage just give all their rabbits baytril for life? If everyone culled for health, all the time, would outbreaks be this darn ubiquitous? I'm wondering if it's worse for wool breeds/fancies than meat breeds as well, since those breeders are more likely to be incapable of culling sick animals?

Anyone have any experience with this? :hijacked:

 

[Secuono]

I forget what it's called, but chickens have a similar issue. Many carry it, most who survive become carriers and it may come back less severe. No actual cure, pointless to keep killing them out if any ever have a chance of being outside. Since wild birds and animals carry it and it's constantly in the ground everywhere.
If the chicken gets real stressed, it may show up again. So keeping the animals, chicken or rabbit, in a low stress environment would help. If they get it again and it's worse than the 1st time or get it a 3rd time, then it's kill time. But I wouldn't if the 2nd time wasn't as bad or if drugging in general was not needed. They would already be stronger than the ones who get it multiple times or progressively worse.
It almost seems like Snuffles is more of a catch all phrase. Many things can be affected and no one knows exactly what bacteria cause it.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

The difference with rabbits and snuffles or pasteurellosis is that being infected never results in immunity or resistance after recovering. Once they are infected, they have it and will either die from it or carry it forever. Once a rabbit displays symptoms, it is too late. You would only want to keep any that NEVER display any symptoms. After losing my whole herd to this, I don't play with it. There is no cure, only lifelong treatment with ABX to keep the symptoms at bay.

 

[skysthelimit]

yep. Am eating one now. Cook well

Hey guys, this has been keeping me up at night -- What percentage of breeders do you think actually practice strict culling for health? Is there some percentage that just keep rabbits full of sneezy sick animals and don't give a crap? Do a certain percentage just give all their rabbits baytril for life? If everyone culled for health, all the time, would outbreaks be this darn ubiquitous? I'm wondering if it's worse for wool breeds/fancies than meat breeds as well, since those breeders are more likely to be incapable of culling sick animals?

Anyone have any experience with this? :hijacked:

that is a good question. I just culled 13 kits and jr because that line had three split penises, I culled two does because of enteritis, and I am considering culling the dam because she produces at least two out six kits in three litters that have come down with enteritis. I have a mini rex kit hat cut her face escaping and today I noticed it opened up to a big puss filled abscess. I don't like her temperament as a kit, so i will probably cull her in the morning. I'd rather have health and good temperament than live with problems I'd have to battle forever.

If in doubt, cull it out.