How to manage an aggressive bred doe?

[rtower]

I'm new to this forum. Just found you guys a few days ago. My thanks to the moderators... Looks like a well-run operation!

I purchased four Florida Whites a couple weeks ago, two senior bred does, one senior buck and one junior doe, all from a very respected breeder of Dutch, Chinchillas and Florida Whites.

All four were fairly skittish during feeding and cage cleaning time, just because they weren't used to handling I suspect. (The breeder has around 120 does so obviously no one rabbit gets much attention.) I made it a habit to move slowly and to gently pet and scratch behind the ears of each rabbit during morning and evening feeding.

Three of the four now come right to the door to greet me and love the attention. But one bred doe will back up against the back wall of the cage as I open the door, then charge with both front feet, trying to scratch my hand as I reach in. Yesterday she added a nice bite to the attack. Didn't break the skin but sure came close and left a nice pair of purple tooth marks on my knuckles!

At the moment I've resolved the issue by reaching in above her with my left hand and gently holding her down as I clean the cage floor and add fresh hay with my right hand.

She's due to kindle around July 7. My concern is whether she will make a decent mother and whether this might be a trait that could be passed on to her kits?

I guess my question is this... Should I cull and replace her?

I'm raising these rabbits for meat. I'm intentionally trying to tame the breeders so they'll be easier to handle and (I hope) less likely to be stressed when I service their cages while they're raising litters.

Years ago I raised New Zealand Whites for meat but thought the smaller Floridas would be a better choice this time.

Just for reference, I keep these rabbits in all-wire cages in a fully enclosed 12' x 24' "barn" with shadecloth walls and a shaded, metal roof. The cages are suspended on 3/4" conduit. I have a barn fan and misting system to cool them on hot days. Neither the rabbits nor their food get wet, but it does reduce the temps by a good 20 degrees. I keep hay available 24/7 (rotate timothy, oatgrass and oat hay) and use timothy pellets for the buck, alfalfa pellets for the does. I've also started sprinkling just a small pinch of Quaker Old Fashioned Oats on top of the pellets at each feeding. They LOVE the oats!

Appreciate any suggestions or solutions. Thanks!

 

[Zass]

If they were mine, I'd let the aggressive doe kindle. She has as good of chances as anybody to be alright mother if you let her do her thing. She may calm down for you with time.

Can she pass the traits to the kits? Yes, there are some types of genetic...wildness or hormonal-ness that rabbits don't always get over. It can be strongly heritable.

But...It's also possible that your doe might just be terrified and moody and need more time to settle in?

If it's hormones, she will probably calm down about 10 days after the kits arrive, but she might go savage again next time she's pregnant.

I don't tolerate any aggression in my herd, because I find getting bitten or having to wear gloves makes rabbit raising a whole lot less fun for me.
Mean does are not better mothers, and they do not have better nesting or kit care instincts.
I've had too many perfect mothers who were gentle as kittens to believe that myth.

Sometimes aggression is just fear driven though, and it really sounds like your doe is scared. It's up to you to decide how much you want to mess with her.

 

[rtower]

Thanks Zass!

I will keep her at least long enough to see if she can raise a litter. And if she does settle down I'll give her a chance.

I don't want any aggression in my line either so I don't expect to keep any of her kits for replacement bucks or does. That was my biggest concern... Whether it might just be a temporary situation (territorial or, as you say, fear) or whether it could get bred into my herd.

Appreciate your quick response!

 

[Miss M]

Welcome to RabbitTalk, Rtower! :welcomewagon:

I see I'm late to the party, but I'll post anyway. :lol: :

It is possible that pregnancy hormones + new owner = aggressiveness, and that she will be sweeter the next time around.

It is also possible that she is just aggressive, and time and love will not fix it.

I have a doe right now that was fine and had raised a litter just fine, and then we had an abandoned dog come around and scare the living daylights out of several of our rabbits. The litter after that, she's been quite aggressive. She hasn't bitten me, but it isn't for lack of trying. I had to ward her off with the hay feeder to check on the kits. She will be culled. I already have raised her replacement -- from her sister.

There is no right or wrong answer here, just what you are willing to do.

The first day or two after kindling, does tend to be much more receptive to attention, and if you are able to spend some time with her then, she may become your best friend for life. And maybe not. For me, that was when my doe turned into a slashing machine. She's not typical, though. :roll:

 

[katiebear]

Bribery works really well.. a couple of raisins or some parsley, even cilantro... talk or sing to them softly also, I know it sounds weird but it works most of the time. If she knows you are coming and not trying to harm her she should calm down.
And Welcome to the forum!!!

 

[rtower]

Thanks for the welcome Miss M! (Cute wagon... Have to figure out how you do that?)

Well, I'm willing to do whatever it takes to give this doe a chance. If I can calm her down eventually and if she is a good mother I'll be glad to keep her. But, I don't want to deal with her "attitude" every day from now on.

We'll see what happens after she kindles. But I sure don't see any reason to add any of her offspring (or her genes) to my breeding stock.

Thanks again! <br /><br /> -- Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:15 pm -- <br /><br /> katiebear, you haven't heard me sing!!! I do know what you mean though... Don't surprise her. Make sure she hears me coming.

But bribery is a thought. Maybe if the very first thing I do each time I reach into her cage is to offer a "bribe", she'll become less defensive. It's worth a try.

Thanks!

 

[Zass]

Bribery works really well.. a couple of raisins or some parsley, even cilantro... talk or sing to them softly also, I know it sounds weird but it works most of the time. If she knows you are coming and not trying to harm her she should calm down.
And Welcome to the forum!!!

I agree to talking and singing bit. I think, because rabbits are unable to easily read our body language, they learn to use our tones to gauge our mood, and thus how "safe" we are.
I tend to keep up a constant stream of noise when I'm with the rabbits, which they seem to appreciate.
In contrast, when someone quiet comes into the rabbitry, even someone familiar like my husband, they tend to act extremely nervous.

 

[dangerbunny]

I have a sweet as pie Holland doe that gets aggressive when pregnant, her babies have all been nice to handle and the doe is fine when not pregnant. She was really bad when I first got her but with later pregnancies has been much better, I just keep an eye on her. So since you just got this doe I would keep an eye on her and if she has other good traits give her another chance or two, she may calm down and it could be a combination of pregnancy hormones and new territory.

 

[Miss M]

Some have had success with putting a radio on low to provide some constant noise.

Thanks for the welcome Miss M! (Cute wagon... Have to figure out how you do that?)

The wagon is:

:welcomewagon:

Must have a space before the first colon and after the second one. It's also in the "View more smilies" list, but I have memorized some of them and just type them out.

Well, I'm willing to do whatever it takes to give this doe a chance. If I can calm her down eventually and if she is a good mother I'll be glad to keep her. But, I don't want to deal with her "attitude" every day from now on.

We'll see what happens after she kindles. But I sure don't see any reason to add any of her offspring (or her genes) to my breeding stock.

Bribery does work wonders on a lot of bunnies. I hope you're able to get her to calm down. I had a buck that was super scared for a while, but once he calmed down, he was so sweet and funny. He had never tried to bite, though... just acted like he knew I was going to kill him. :roll:

 

[SuburbanHomesteader]

I agree to talking and singing bit. I think, because rabbits are unable to easily read our body language, they learn to use our tones to gauge our mood, and thus how "safe" we are.

I tend to keep up a constant stream of noise when I'm with the rabbits, which they seem to appreciate.
In contrast, when someone quiet comes into the rabbitry, even someone familiar like my husband, they tend to act extremely nervous.

Agreed - I actually play the radio all day long. Talk radio during the week and Country Music on the weekends. Have had several folks comment on how calm our rabbits are.

Your doe may calm down after another few weeks.

I've had does that are "cranky" when they're pregnant and protective after birth. But if they stay over protective or aggressive through to weaning, then they're likely to be culled. I've had some does that calmed right down after a litter or two.

One of my does is downright mean unless she's either pregnant or nursing a litter. She's a wonderful mother and so she gets a shorter "rest" time between litters. Both of us win.

Each doe is different and you'll soon get this one figured out. Be patient and kind and giver her some slack. (And if that doesn't work...... ) Good luck.

 

[rtower]

I really appreciate everyone's input. (And the "welcome wagon" code!)

I continue to scratch, pet and work with all four rabbits during each feeding. It's the most relaxing part of my day!

I still have to place on hand lightly on the troublesome doe's back as I clean her cage. But I have learned that, when I add fresh hay to her cage, if I hold my hand under the hay (so the hay is between my hand and the doe) she'll start her charge but then stop before she runs into the hay. That at least seems to be breaking the "routine".

I'm also trying hand-feeding a treat hoping she'll associate my hand entering her territory with something pleasant.

Anyway, I can deal with her. My concern is if I am out of town and my wife has to take care of the rabbits. Don't want her scratched or bitten.

I'll let you know if there's any change in her attitude after she kindles, or if she just gradually improves with time.

Thanks again Everyone!!

 

[myrkari]

My doe Grump (clue is in the name!) did the same spring-attack routine with me when I first got her. Now she scrabbles excitedly at the door when I go past because she knows I bring tasty treats and bribes. She still doesn't want cuddles or strokes, I don't think it is in her nature; but she's not defensive or scared like she originally was. I hope your doe comes round in time with work, just like Grump did. I think you're taking the right approach and the advice you've been given is spot on. Good luck!

 

[BlueHaven]

I would be interested in any input you can give in the future about the temperament of her babies.
Just wonder if normal handling of them would have them turn out just fine.
Let us know.

 

[myrkari]

I'm not the OP so I know that question wasn't intended for me, but I'll add my similar experience info to the mix in case it helps: all Grump's kits are happy enough and never became scared or fearfully-aggressive like she started out. They all run to the front for food like she does. However, I've not kept one to adulthood from her so can't be sure that a doeling wouldn't "turn" once hormones kicked in or some such thing.

 

[Zass]

I had crazy temper haunting my meat mutt lines. I'm pretty sure it was my bucks that were carrying and passing on the crazy-doe-temper genes.
Acting all nice themselves, but out of a neurotic doe.

The kits are often a bit more skittish, but sometimes, they are normal and sweet and seem to be good rabbits, I'll set them aside to see how they do, maybe bring them inside or pair them with a velveteen(the friendliest rabbits I've ever met)...and I still end up having to cull at puberty.

 

[rtower]

I would be interested in any input you can give in the future about the temperament of her babies.
Just wonder if normal handling of them would have them turn out just fine.
Let us know.

BlueHaven, I'm curious about that too. I will let you know what kind of disposition the kits develop.