How to make a chocolate tort and a chocolate agouti?

[LPH_NY]

If I cross a Siamese/Sable with a chocolate gene to a black tort with a chocolate gene... is there a possibility for chocolate tort? Both rabbits came from a chocolate doe and a tort buck.

If not, how can I go about creating one?

If I take that Siamese/Sable buck who has chocolate and cross him with my chestnut doe... can I pair the offspring or linebreed somehow to create a chocolate agouti?

Would my chances of creating chocolate torts and chocolate agoutis be any better if I swapped the Siamese/Sable buck for his brother, who is a black tort? Or would the chances be the same?

Can anyone post a picture of your own chocolate tort and/or chocolate agouti?

 

[Dood]

If I cross a Siamese/Sable with a chocolate gene to a black tort with a chocolate gene... is there a possibility for chocolate tort? Both rabbits came from a chocolate doe and a tort buck.

Yes.
The sable carries non-extension from its tort parent so there is 50% chance of torts or sable points and 25% chance of chocolate versions of these.

Breeding two black torts who carry chocolate will increase your odds as you won't get any blacks or chocolate or sable or chocolate sable and will only get torts and sable points in black and chocolate

 

[akane]

The tort would make better chances of torts but not of chocolate agoutis. Both the sable and tort have the same 2 self genes so the first gen to a chestnut would be 50-100% agoutis from either buck and then 50% agoutis if you cross 2 of those resulting agouti offspring. Problem is since you don't have a chocolate but only carriers you can't tell which of the offspring got chocolate. If the chestnut doesn't have it then you only have a 50% chance of any offspring having it from the sire side and none showing it. So it's possible to breed forever and never get a chocolate agouti because you never know who is carrying what. You can test breed a doe back to a chocolate carrying buck and hopefully get a chocolate something to confirm she has it but you could also breed several litters and still not get chocolate even if both have it. There's no way to know for sure unless a chocolate happens.

 

[Dood]

Sorty, i just noticed i forgot to cover the chovolate agouti part of the question

You cannot get chocolate agouti from a tort to tort or from a tort to sable breeding as all the colours are self based.

You need to intoduce the agouti gene from a chestnut (or chinchilla or opal etc...) and like Zass said, breed siblings or back to the chocolate carrying parent and cross your fingers that your hold backs have a chocolate gene as there is no way to tell visually

 

[LPH_NY]

Akane, I see what you're saying about the odds being stacked against me in making chocolate agoutis. I'd have better luck crossing my chestnut to a full chocolate, then picking a chestnut daughter and breeding back to the chocolate sire, right? Ah, well, it was a passing thought. The question did inspire me to do some more reading on genetics - probably 3 solid hours worth of reading!

And Dood, I know I can't make an agouti from two torts... my thought was, what if I kept the pair of torts and my chestnut doe... would I ever get the chocolate agoutis that way? But I have my answer. I see now that it'd be a real guessing game and I'd have to do lots of test breeding to find my chocolate carriers. I don't have the space to support that. I can only breed 2 does at a time, and we will only do 2 or 3 breedings per year.

I'm so indecisive these days, as I have to reduce my herd to a trio and won't be breeding them until February. The Siamese buck has four siblings - 2 torts, 2 blacks... I was just pondering whether I'd wish to swap anyone out before butcher day. Problem with them, is that they are barely socialized. I picked the Siamese before I even knew his sex... spent a lot of time cuddling him. He's much more sociable than the siblings. For that reason alone, I feel like I'd always regret swapping him out. So I really ought to keep him. I'm attached to my chestnut doe, but not particularly attached to my chinchilla doe... but I can't spend money on a different rabbit and I can't imagine another meat breeder would want to trade me a more desireable rabbit for her. So I'm stuck with her, or I can swap her for a tort or black from the same litter as the Siamese. I just can't decide what colors I want to see in the nestboxes next year!!