Housing Questions to Avoid Future Headaches

[OrovilleTim]

Ok, we've decided to raise meat rabbits for the purpose of supplementing our family's food (well, replacing a portion of questionable protein in our diet with healthy protein.) I supplemented many a family meal as a teen with wild rabbits and am looking forward to introducing my wife and kids to rabbit meat. A bonus will also be the manure that will supplement the established compost routine we have for our small container based garden (and will eventually help enrich our clay soil for a in-ground row garden.)

Anyway, following is our plan which I've come to after reading probably too much stuff. I'd love to hear input from others to make sure I don't have any wrong assumptions. I know there are details that need to be flushed out as things go along, but the housing is where I will be starting and wanted to save any future headaches from doing it wrong now.

I am making a slanted roof rabbit shed based on the plans in the newest Bob Bennett (page 68/69.) It's basically a 3 sided shed that I'll put some mil-surp canvas over the front that can be rolled up/down as weather changes (although it is relatively mild here in CA.) The framing to hang the cages will be made out of angle iron. The footprint would be 4'x10' which would fit in our limited space area.

Here is where the biggest question is as it's the largest expenditure will be: Will six cages be enough for a single family meat herd, and are my cage sizes realistic?

The rabbits in question will most likely be (4) New Zealand Whites (one bred before purchase senior doe, one young doe, two young bucks.) Based on these rabbits, I was looking at (4) 24"x30" cages and (2) 24"x24" cages (all 18" tall.) These would be (2) 24"x30" for the does, (2) 24"x24" for the bucks, and (2) 24"x30" for the weaned offspring.

Is this a correct plan or do you see potential issues? I can't help but think that the (2) offspring cages might be short-sighted / small even though the plan is to use these offspring as food. I've read so many things such as needing to separate the bucks, but on the other hand I've heard you can leave the offspring together up to 12 weeks with no issues. I've also read that it is recommended to have other cages available for potential breeding stock, but I've also read that you just replace your "main" bunnies with offspring when the time comes.

Thanks in advance for the valuable insight. Money and time is tight and mistakes can be expensive in both.

 

[ottersatin]

Tim,
I believe that you've got a very good plan there.
The only fly in the ointment is:
We all start out believing we have the strength to stick to our guns/plans
BUT: We soon get the itch or is it an infection which leads us to
insist on have/keeping more of the rabbits that we produce for one reason or another.
I still can't figure it out! I would suggest that you think of a future plan
as to how you will accommodate another shed for your eventual additions.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[OneAcreFarm]

If it was me, I would go with 3 Does and a single buck. I would use at least 30x30 for the does and 24x30 for the buck. NZWs are around 10-12lbs and they are large rabbits. I use 30x36 for my does...I do have some that are 24x30, but I use them for bucks as I find them too small for a doe and a nestbox to co-exist comfortably. Remember, your rabbits will be in these full time....They need space to stretch out fully. Otherwise, it sounds like a great plan. Are you going to be stacking the cages?

 

[avdpas77]

I agree with OAF, A 24 x 30 cage might look large enough for a NZW doe, but it will have to hold the doe plus maybe 8 or 10 kits until they are 6 weeks old. I have 30" x 40" cages, and I can tell you the are almost packed the last two weeks before I wean. That is 1200 square inches, compared to 720 square inches for a 24 x 30. If you are pretty sure that you have a place to pick up a buck quickly if something happens, I would keep only one buck. The reason to keep two with that few (meat rabbit) does, is only for an emergency if something happens to main one.

Now the only trouble with 3 does, is that you can't always keep 2 bred at the same time which allows one to swap kits in the case of trouble. Even numbers are better, but I don't think you have the room for 4 does. Usually, after the young does get started, though, there aren't problems. It might be better to breed the senior doe by herself, and two younger does at the same time. If you breed them 2 weeks apart, it will optimize your grow-out space. Ideally, with 3 does, that would give you 24 fryers a month (I think)average, under ideal circumstances.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

The rabbits in question will most likely be (4) New Zealand Whites (one bred before purchase senior doe, one young doe, two young bucks.) Based on these rabbits, I was looking at (4) 24"x30" cages and (2) 24"x24" cages (all 18" tall.) These would be (2) 24"x30" for the does, (2) 24"x24" for the bucks, and (2) 24"x30" for the weaned offspring.

Tim,

I raise standard Rex, which mature quite a bit smaller than NZs and have smaller litter sizes. I have the same set-up, with regard to the cage sizes you mentioned. I wish now that the cages for my does were larger, and not as deep, but I had limited linear space in my BunnyBarn. If your does are not tame and easily handled, it can be difficult to get them out of the cages- I have had to put head and shoulders in the cages to get them out, and it is a tight squeeze. When you have a nest in a cage that size, there is not much space left for the does to move around. I have tried to expand the floor space by giving each rabbit what I call a "BunnyBucket"- a 5 gallon pot suspended from the roof of the cage. It does help, and the rabbits spend a lot of time in them.

The footprint would be 4'x10' which would fit in our limited space area.

There is a condition that we laughingly refer to as "Raging Rabbitosis", but you will find that it is indeed a real phenomenon... no matter how many rabbits and cages you have, you will probably want more before very long! If you have two tiers of cages, back to back, you could fit a lot more cages in the shed. On the top, 3 cages on each side of 36" long x 24" deep, and the bottom tiers having cages of varying lengths and 18" deep to accommodate the bucks and possible replacement breeders. If you don't have extra cages to grow out your replacements, you would have to cull a breeder for space, and lose the litters that she could produce in the months it takes for the new doe to reach breeding age.

If it was me, I would go with 3 Does and a single buck.

If you do this, make sure the bred doe is bred to a buck from the breeder's herd that is not closely related to the buck you buy, and keep a buck from that litter to establish your two distinct lines.

I am going to disagree with my dear "Sistah" OAF on this slightly. (GASP! I'm sure all the "regulars" here on RT are checking Hell for ice cubes...) I would only do this if the breeder is near you. I bought a bred doe, a slightly younger doe, and two bucks originally. My breeder is several hundred miles away, and we met about half way. The bred doe was not proven (she was a maiden) and had her litter on the wire, so they all were dead when I found them. Wanting to compare litter results from my two bucks, I bred both does to the same buck with the intent of breeding to the other buck for the second litters. Sadly, the second buck died for no apparent reason before I could breed to him. I believe that was around July of last year, and I still haven't been able to arrange to get another buck from her.

 

[OrovilleTim]

If it was me, I would go with 3 Does and a single buck. I would use at least 30x30 for the does and 24x30 for the buck. NZWs are around 10-12lbs and they are large rabbits. I use 30x36 for my does...I do have some that are 24x30, but I use them for bucks as I find them too small for a doe and a nestbox to co-exist comfortably. Remember, your rabbits will be in these full time....They need space to stretch out fully. Otherwise, it sounds like a great plan. Are you going to be stacking the cages?

Yes, it will be two rows of three cages with dropping boards between the rows. The plans utilize a metal frame that you hang the cages from. I could probably go with cages deeper than 24" but might need to make sure it will work with the plans. Might need to excavate a little more for the shed site too if I have to go a little deeper. The 4' is a magic number though as the sides can be one piece of plywood.

 

[Miss M]

We soon get the itch or is it an infection which leads us to
insist on have/keeping more of the rabbits that we produce for one reason or another.
I still can't figure it out! I would suggest that you think of a future plan
as to how you will accommodate another shed for your eventual additions.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

:lol: Ain't that the truth!

I agree that, for that size rabbitry, you should not need more than one buck (unless you want a backup). With your limited space, though, probably better use of it would be to have a third doe rather than a second buck.

That is actually the setup I have - three does and a buck. I do also have a retired buck (*sigh* he was our first rabbit... and he's a great lap bunny... what can I say?). But three working does and one working buck, and I have two growout cages. I was breeding a doe every three weeks for a while (now I'm preparing to move), and on that schedule, two growout cages were enough, as long as we faithfully butchered a litter every three weeks.

My rabbitry is 6' x 12'. It is crowded as far as us taking care of it (not a lot of aisle room), but not for the rabbits. In that space, I have all three does and the working buck in 24" x 36" cages, the retired buck in a 24" x 24" cage, and two 24" x 30" growout cages. They are suspended in such a way that there is space between each cage. The rabbitry would not be crowded for us taking care of it if we had a fully open front like you are talking about, though.

Keep your reach in mind when figuring cage depth. There is no way I could reach into the corners of a 30" deep cage.

 

[OrovilleTim]

Couple new posts in while I was doing my last reply. It seems that the opinion is that the cages are definitely too small. Bennett raises Tans apparently, so perhaps the plans in his book are more suited for smaller rabbits. I'm going to look at the plans and how to tweak them for the recommended larger sizes. Luckily I have yet to buy anything (despite constant trips to Tractor Supply and online cage suppliers.)

Thanks much!

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Look into Klubertanz for your cages- I got mine from BASS, and the floor wire is 16 gauge- Klubertanz sells 14 gauge which is stronger and lasts longer.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Couple new posts in while I was doing my last reply. It seems that the opinion is that the cages are definitely too small. Bennett raises Tans apparently, so perhaps the plans in his book are more suited for smaller rabbits. I'm going to look at the plans and how to tweak them for the recommended larger sizes. Luckily I have yet to buy anything (despite constant trips to Tractor Supply and online cage suppliers.)

Thanks much!

If you need to keep that 24" depth, at least make the width of the doe cages 36". You could have three that are 24x36 for does and four underneath that are 24x30 for your buck and your growouts, that would give you 7 cages. Make sure that you get cages or wire to make them that is 14g GAW (galvanized AFTER weld) 1"x2" for the top and sides, 1/2"x 1" for the floor. You will also want to have the largest doors you can get.<br /><br />__________ Fri May 04, 2012 1:48 pm __________<br /><br />

I am going to disagree with my dear "Sistah" OAF on this slightly. (GASP! I'm sure all the "regulars" here on RT are checking Hell for ice cubes...) I would only do this if the breeder is near you. I bought a bred doe, a slightly younger doe, and two bucks originally. My breeder is several hundred miles away, and we met about half way. The bred doe was not proven (she was a maiden) and had her litter on the wire, so they all were dead when I found them. Wanting to compare litter results from my two bucks, I bred both does to the same buck with the intent of breeding to the other buck for the second litters. Sadly, the second buck died for no apparent reason before I could breed to him. I believe that was around July of last year, and I still haven't been able to arrange to get another buck from her.

Alright, Sistah, that is IT! Swords at dawn! :duel: LOL!

No, actually, I do agree with you for the reasons you mention...but thinking about him getting the best return for his investment "meat" wise, I think the 3 does/1 buck is the better option solely for that reason.

 

[Secuono]

Do not go deeper than 2ft, unless you have long arms.
Make a wide and tall door.
Mine are 2x4ft for everyone. Then I have 2x8ft for grow out and a 3x6 for another grow out.
If you can make them large, do so, you and them will both be happy.

 

[drowe005]

The best rule of thumb to go by in my opinion is about 1 square foot per pound of the rabbits adult weight. So a 10-12 lb NZW, would require 10-12 square feet of floor space. Just remember, recommended size is different than required minimum size; I like to go with the recommended size myself, as a content rabbit produces healthy offspring and aren't as prone to illness and stress. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure there is some sort of animal regulation that requires you to have a minimum amount of square foot per pound; sames goes with birds, they're required a certain amount of square feet per bird or you can be fined. I keep my Californian does, which are about the same size as what you want, in 3'X3.5' cages, which allows for enough space when youve got a large litter as these meat breeds produce.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

The 4' is a magic number though as the sides can be one piece of plywood.

Instead of plywood, why not look into the corrugated plastic panels- they wont rot, are waterproof (and pee proof!), and cutting one piece lengthwise to add a bit of width wouldn't cost you much extra. The scrap will come in handy too.

 

[OrovilleTim]

Lots of great stuff here! I appreciate it (and so will my wife when I don't end up doing, un-doing, re-doing... ummm, not that I have a history of that or anything )

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Alright, Sistah, that is IT! Swords at dawn! :duel: LOL!

Oh, GOODY! I'll see you at LAX in the morning! We don't have to wait until July to meet after all! I must stipulate, however, that we will duel only until first blood is drawn, not unto death!

Hmmm... since my bunnies will count as your carry-on luggage, I assume your rapier will have to be baggage. :? Pity, that. I will have an unfair advantage! :roll: Mwa-ha-ha!!! :twisted:

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Alright, Sistah, that is IT! Swords at dawn! :duel: LOL!

Oh, GOODY! I'll see you at LAX in the morning! We don't have to wait until July to meet after all! I must stipulate, however, that we will duel only until first blood is drawn, not unto death!

Hmmm... since my bunnies will count as your carry-on luggage, I assume your rapier will have to be baggage. :? Pity, that. I will have an unfair advantage! :roll: Mwa-ha-ha!!! :twisted:

Curses! Foiled again.... :evil:

 

[OrovilleTim]

The 4' is a magic number though as the sides can be one piece of plywood.

Instead of plywood, why not look into the corrugated plastic panels- they wont rot, are waterproof (and pee proof!), and cutting one piece lengthwise to add a bit of width wouldn't cost you much extra. The scrap will come in handy too.

I'll actually be using that for the poop-slide, and possibly on the inside of the back of the shed (I will definitely be covering the inside with something though to prevent urine trouble.) But, the reason for going with a plywood/siding on the shell was so I can paint it and apply shingles to match the house. This was to make it kind of non-descript as we live in a 'hood with a POA (even though we are a semi-rural area.) The neighbors already think we are redneck enough as it is. :cowboy:

 

[mountainrabbits]

The 4' is a magic number though as the sides can be one piece of plywood.

Instead of plywood, why not look into the corrugated plastic panels- they wont rot, are waterproof (and pee proof!), and cutting one piece lengthwise to add a bit of width wouldn't cost you much extra. The scrap will come in handy too.

I'll actually be using that for the poop-slide, and possibly on the inside of the back of the shed (I will definitely be covering the inside with something though to prevent urine trouble.) But, the reason for going with a plywood/siding on the shell was so I can paint it and apply shingles to match the house. This was to make it kind of non-descript as we live in a 'hood with a POA (even though we are a semi-rural area.) The neighbors already think we are redneck enough as it is. :cowboy:

If it isn't cost prohibitive you might put the panels on the inside of the structure-it will eat up some space but is worth it in the end. Wood soaks up the urine smell and can get icky after a long time even with regular cleanings.

 

[OrovilleTim]

Well, we've been "rabbiting" like crazy (my daughter had an award winning market meat pen, and placed well in showmanship), but we are just getting around to actually constructing our home meat setup which originally had me here seeking input.

We've decided to go with Californians we'll purchase from my kids' project. While it is their project, I've spent *much* time assisting with the required tasks. Some things that we've learned that will definitely go into place in our home meat operation:

• Deep cages (30" & up) are definitely out unless I want to be the only one grabbing rabbits as I'm the only one with reach. Even socialized rabbits love to hide in the far corner just out of reach.
• We won't use trays as the amount of shavings we go through with trays is phenomenal. Plus when using the bunny poo as fertilizer, the shaving to poo ratio isn't what I'd prefer.
• We want to hook up some sort of auto-watering system. We did learn that constantly dealing with water bottles was a major time sink.
• Inward opening doors that swing up and latch to the top of the cage are *awesome* and we will go that route.
• Bucks and does can both get urine *everywhere* and the inside of the shelter will definitely be coated with non-porous material.
• A top row of cages up high may seem cool and space saving, but only the tall person (me) can reliably assist with it. No cages up high (and high is relative and that needs to be considered.)
• We'll be going with screen bottomed feeders (we presently use solid) and will be cutting holes to locate the feeders outside of the cage with a top to prevent opportunistic feeders. Positioning outside will not require us to open the cages for feeding.

And since everyone loves pictures, here is all my kids' bunnies in their project (well, I guess they are actually "projects" including breeding, meat, etc.) A couple of these does will be the ones coming home, and the existing young ones will be going to freezer camp.

Does/Does w/ Buns

Bucks

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

I do like the setup...all but the trays. I'm forever hating trays.

Sounds like you've got a really good start!!!!!