Holland Lop "should" of had babies today

[jimmywalt]

Just in case anyone is still following along..............

It's Saturday at 3:30PM and still no babies. We are on day 33 and I'm about to give up. She doesn't seem like she's even pregnant anymore. She just acts like normal. I thought Hollands had babies on day 31, but I guess not this one.

I know some have said that it could go 4 days late, but this is just crazy.

Do you think this could be a false pregnancy????? Like I said she is about 2-1/2 to 3 yrs old from what we were told when we got her a couple months ago. She was digging a couple weeks ago, she did the "hay mustache" about a week or so early, and she pulled fur like crazy on day 31 and 32. But still no babies and she is as cool as a cucumber now.

Why would she go to all that work and especially pull fur like crazy right on day 31 if she wasn't pregnant. This would be her very first pregnancy.

So how long do we wait before we breed her again?

Help.

 

[Dood]

Breeding her now might get things going if she is pregnant and if she isnt then the sooner the better anyways.

 

[Homer]

...My wife said earlier this evening that she was laying on her side (the rabbit) and she saw for certain a direct poke come out of her stomach....

Get the rabbit out and see if you feel movement in her belly. Here's a good explanation of how to do it if you've never done it. https://www.arba.net/PDFs/palpation.pdf Being past due it should be very easy to feel movement.

 

[jimmywalt]

Breeding her now might get things going if she is pregnant and if she isnt then the sooner the better anyways.

Well we put her in with her buck. He quickly mounted her once and fell off, within 30 seconds he tried to mount again and they began chasing each other. She was growling and opened her mouth as if to bite him. He got behind her again and she went right after them. So we immediately pulled her out. We don't want our buck to get hurt.

That was about 4 hours ago. Now we aren't sure if that means she actually is pregnant (day 33 today), or if she "thinks" she's pregnant. Also wondering if what appeared to be 1 good mating with him falling off has now made her pregnant..... Is that even possible?

After 4 hours no kits from her, she's as cool as can be in her cage.

Not sure what to do at this point. Would appreciate some words of advice on what to do from here. Thank you.

 

[Zass]

One good breeding can certainly result in kits, so mark it on the calender just in case.

I have had a doe pull hair on day 29 and produce nothing at all. Usually with false pregnancies they do the nestbuilding thing earlier and go back to acting unbred earlier, but rabbits do like to keep us on our toes

I'd keep a nextbox available to her, just in case, and just wait and watch. You can try breeding her again tomorrow if you'd like. Couldn't hurt anything, but be ready to separate them if she goes after your buck again.

 

[jimmywalt]

...My wife said earlier this evening that she was laying on her side (the rabbit) and she saw for certain a direct poke come out of her stomach....

Get the rabbit out and see if you feel movement in her belly. Here's a good explanation of how to do it if you've never done it. https://www.arba.net/PDFs/palpation.pdf Being past due it should be very easy to feel movement.

We tried to so that this afternoon, but can't feel anything, and don't even know if we were doing it right.............. So we decided to try to mate them and see what happened.

Help....

 

[Marinea]

You're not going to want to hear this, but at this point, all you can do is...wait.

Either your doe is about to give birth, or she's not. Rabbits miss sometimes, especially when it's hot. BUT, I would not remove the nest box for a few more days, just in case.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Take your buck out and palpate him. Then take the doe out and palpate her. At this stage, the kits should be very easy to feel, although some does will fool you even then. :roll:

As said already, leave that nest in there, but mark her as bred. I have had many does deliver normal and large litters after just one cover.

The only thing that is really going against you at this point is the heat. The buck may have little or no viable sperm. Young bucks don't go heat sterile as quickly as older bucks, so it depends in part on his age.

 

[jimmywalt]

Take your buck out and palpate him. Then take the doe out and palpate her. At this stage, the kits should be very easy to feel, although some does will fool you even then. :roll:

As said already, leave that nest in there, but mark her as bred. I have had many does deliver normal and large litters after just one cover.

The only thing that is really going against you at this point is the heat. The buck may have little or no viable sperm. Young bucks don't go heat sterile as quickly as older bucks, so it depends in part on his age.

Thank you for the help. We have fans going in our garage. We are in Michigan so it's cooler than in Florida. Currently it's 74.9 degrees in the garage. Is that considered "hot"?

When you say "heat sterile" does that mean forever, or just during the hot periods of the summer?

We will leave the next box in there till Wednesday, which would be day 37 (6 days past due). Then we thought we would try to breed her again. We picked "Wednesday" because day 31 is Saturday and we are home on the weekends.

Thank you again for your help. I'm interested in knowing if our garage is considered "hot" now , and also about "heat sterile" if that's forever.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Some people say that over 80 degrees they go sterile (although mine haven't!) so at your temps I wouldn't worry. And no- it doesn't last forever. Males produce new sperm throughout most of their lives, so hot weather only kills the ones that are "mature" at the time.

 

[Miss M]

Most of what I've read about heat sterility has said 94*, though it will still vary a bit according to the buck and housing and weather and all that.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Most of what I've read about heat sterility has said 94*

Even that doesn't really make sense to me... the normal body temp of domestic rabbits is between 101F and 103F. Granted, their testicles "swing low", but I would think that they could stand at least 98F or so. :?

 

[Bandits Bunny Farm]

Also wondering if what appeared to be 1 good mating with him falling off has now made her pregnant..... Is that even possible?

about 7 weeks ago, i had my disabled mini rex doe running in our rabbit run that we keep the rabbits cages in because it helps her feet. I was going to pick up the new doe i had just gotten that day, i look over, and my mini rex buck, had gotten out. he only had time for maybe 1 mating before i noticed he was out. 31 days later, she had a beautiful litter of 4.

Now, about 4 days ago, i had her out in the run (I let her run in the area all day because we have it enclosed. I don't worry about her becauses her disability is in 2 of her feet (front right, back left, i think), so she cant dig, and they cant jump either) we had left about 7pm, and came back at around 10 or 1030, to find that my Mini Lop buck had decided to dig out of his hutch, and get to where my does are :twisted: :twisted: ... soooooooo i am most likely expecting a Plush Lop litter around Aug 8 :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

[MewsicLovr]

As others have said if they are that far along then feeling kits will be very easy. Just hold her underneath her thighs with your fingers spread across her belly and gently palpate. If there's anything in there you should feel big lumps, and they will probably kick back.

 

[jimmywalt]

We are pretty sure now that it was a false pregnancy :angry: :angry:

This morning (day 34) we tried to take her to his cage. We couldn't even get her in his cage before she started growling. She wasn't going to have ANYTHING to do with him! He on the other hand was READY TO GO! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

So what do we do now? Can we wait a day or so and try to breed them again?

It's near to impossible for our lack of patience to "assume" that last nights 1 good cover "might" result in a litter in 31 days. That's a long time to wait to be disappointed again.

Thank you again!!!

 

[3mina]

Make that a BIG cuppa. You've still got two more days at least, day 37 is when I return a doe to the buck.

 

[Dood]

It's near to impossible for our lack of patience to "assume" that last nights 1 good cover "might" result in a litter in 31 days. That's a long time to wait to be disappointed again.

If she is not cooperating then there isn't much you can do unless you want to try and hold her for a forced breeding - and then hope that breeding worked.

I would keep trying to breed her every 8 to 12 hours and mark on a calendar each time there is a successfull "fall off"

Unfortunately with rabbits you can only wait - kits usually cannot be palpitated until at least 10 days after conception but you could always go to the vet for an ultra-sound

 

[dangerbunny]

Hollands are very difficult to breed, be prepared for it to be occasionally very disappointing. I have SF and Hollands, the Silver fox absolutely out perform the Hollands.

 

[jimmywalt]

WE ARE EXTREMELY IN NEED OF ADVICE -

Yesterday (day 35) we bred her again with her mate twice. He was successful a total of 5 times.

This morning (day 36) we see that she had a dead baby on the wire, and not in the beautiful nest that she had made with A LOT of her fur.

The baby looked normal from the head to about the stomach, it was totally flat from her sitting on it. From the stomach to the tail area it was long was like a triangle to a point. It was near to impossible if it had back feet (if so they were EXTREMELY tiny). It almost looked deformed. Not sure if it was born alive or not. She's a larger Holland Lop so it's odd that this baby was so tiny.

Now we are wondering
1. Was it stuck inside of her? Is that even possible.
2. Is there more that will be coming (alive or dead)?
3. If she has more will she know to have them in the nest box?
4. Was it the mating yesterday that killed it, or caused it to come out last night?
5. Do we consider her pregnant from the 1 cover on Saturday, or the 5 covers yesterday (Monday), and start counting 31 days?

We both have to go to work today so we can't watch her. We hope that everything going forward turns out ok, but we have no idea what to expect.

 

[Dood]

1. Was it stuck inside of her? Is that even possible.

"stuck kits" are VERY common in dwarf and small breeds - just do a search of this site

2. Is there more that will be coming (alive or dead)?

There could be more, likely dead if they have been in there too long, but possibly alive.

3. If she has more will she know to have them in the nest box?

maybe, maybe not. It is very traumatizing for a doe to pass a stuck kit so they are not thinking rationally. As long as their is more than 1 born alive and they huddle togeather they should do OK out of the fur nest for a few hours.

4. Was it the mating yesterday that killed it, or caused it to come out last night?

The mating DID NOT kill it but helped to increase her hormones and hence uterine motility so she could pass it.

5. Do we consider her pregnant from the 1 cover on Saturday, or the 5 covers yesterday (Monday), and start counting 31 days?

It is highly unlikely that the sperm got around the kits(s) in the uterus to fertilize the next batch of eggs in the Fallopian tubes so I doubt she got pregnant from those breedings. But keep an eye on her in 30 days just to be sure

I wait at least a week before re-breeding a doe who had a stuck kit so she has time to heal up internally and to rule out her having an infection. Stuck kits can cause tearing of the reproductive tract and bacteria can invade so please monitor her behaviour, eating, drinking and bathroom habits to ensure she is functioning normally.

If they have a second problem pregnancy they are removed from my breeding program as I do not want her sons or daughters passing on these defective genes.