Help! What color is he?

[PoppyLapine]

This is a satin angora buck I produced in my herd. I didn't add the pic of his belly, but its solid white. I also have baby pics too if needed, he looked like a chocolate agouti as his fur started to come in. The dad is black (though he has developed quite a few white guard hairs on his back when you look closely) and the mom is red.

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[hotzcatz]

Looks like a dilute version of agouti which would be either opal (a diluted black agouti aka or a "blue" agouti) or lynx (diluted chocolate agouti aka "lilac agouti"), I think. It's pretty light to be opal, might be lynx? Lynx is a warm dove gray color as opposed to the colder blue color.

The color genetics for opal are: A_ B_ C_ dd E_ and for lynx are: A_ bb C_ dd E_

The parents color genes are:
Red = A_ __ C_ D_ ee + Rufus
Black = aa B_ C_ D_ E_

Since it's a dilute color either way, you now know the color genetics for the parents are at least:
Red = A_ __ C_ Dd ee + Rufus
Black = aa B_ C_ Dd E_

Because of it's color and parents, the color genetics of that rabbit should be: Aa _ C_ dd _e
If it's an opal, it's: Aa B_ C_ dd _e If it's a lynx it's: Aa bb C_ dd _e.

Nice definition on the color rings, too.

 

[PoppyLapine]

Thank you so much! Your explanation makes a lot of sense! My family and I have been baffled on what he is. When his fuzz first came in I was sure I was getting a chocolate agouti, but then by 3-4 weeks the lighter color started coming in, and he had an almost cinnamon and sugar quality.

edit: oops, not 3-4 weeks, looked back at pics and the lighter color started coming in at about 8 days.

 

[SableSteel]

Looks chinchilla based to me. If he looked like a chocolate agouti when he was younger, it's possible he might be a chocolate chinchilla. They start off looking the same.

 

[PoppyLapine]

Oh, just looked at some pics of chinchilla, and that could also be his color. Hmm...
I don't know his parents full genetics (only that the dad's parents were chocolate and black). They were non pedigreed when I got them, since I only wanted to breed for fiber at the time.
How do I find out which color he is? is there test breeding I can do?
I added a couple of baby pics, one at 3 days old (he's the baby on the bottom, and I know they are not good pics, they wouldn't hold still) and the other is when he was 8 days old.

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[SableSteel]

Looks like a chocolate chinchilla in those baby pictures too. He looks pretty chocolately in those pictures, so we can see that he is chocolate based (not dilute) and not non-extension. He's definitely agouti. And I don't see any sort of cream or fawn pigment to him - his bands look silvery white. That would make him a chocolate chinchilla. Aa bb cchd_ D_ Ee is the genotype for it.

A chocolate chinchilla is just a chinchilla version of chocolate agouti, where the fawn bands are replaced with white

 

[PoppyLapine]

Yes, he is was very chocolatey when he was a tiny baby. Thanks for the explanation! Is there a color I can breed with him to produce more chinchillas? I don't have any other visual chins.

 

[hotzcatz]

Go with what SableSteel said, I've not got the chinchilla gene in the herd here so it's not one I'm familiar with. Usually 'what color is that rabbit' takes a real critical eye to actually determine for certain and I'm sure Sable has a much better eye than I.

Chinchillas, sables and pearls all have the chinchilla gene. The chinchilla gene is fairly high up on the 'C' gene dominance chart. Here's the 'C' gene in order of dominance.

C = Full Color
cchd = Dark Chinchilla
cchl = Light Chinchilla
ch = Himalayan
cc = Albino

Maybe bred with an albino or Himi so the chinchilla gene can be dominant?

 

[SableSteel]

Yes, he is was very chocolatey when he was a tiny baby. Thanks for the explanation! Is there a color I can breed with him to produce more chinchillas? I don't have any other visual chins.

What colors do you have available? Pearl or rew, or any color that carries rew are probably the most common ones that can throw chinchilla

 

[PoppyLapine]

I have only just recently started focusing on breeding, before I was only breeding to get more fiber to spin and make yarn. So, unfortunately I only have 3 pure satin does, a red (his mom), a chestnut, and chocolate agouti. Then I have 2 satin/English does that are just my woolers, chocolate and black.
I do have a pearl I had gotten at the beginning of the year because of his excellent fur density, but he's a buck, so thats not going to help much, lol.
I'd love to bring in a REW, but Where I'm at I can't find any satin angora breeders close by, so I rely on transport, but with RHD here in AZ no one is willing to come through (which I'd be cautious with that as well).
Maybe I should try breeding his parents again and try for a doe? Then I could pair her with my pearl buck.

 

[SableSteel]

If you bred him back to his mom you could get more chinchilla.
I do remember seeing some satin angoras in arizona. Maybe a year or two ago? I just checked my records and that was back in 2018, I'll message you some contact info for the person I just checked their site and it says they still breed them.

 

[PoppyLapine]

I'll have to try that out. I have been trying to figure out who to pair her up with next, it would be interesting to see if I can get more chins in the litter.
That would be awesome to find someone else here in AZ! Thank you for the info!