Help - rearing solo kit with first time doe

[Tbgb1912]

First time doe kindled last night - I didn't realize until this morning. Woke up to two stone cold dead kits and one almost frozen. I managed to warm the lone kit up and he's wiggling and squeaking, tucked up to a wheat bag with what fur the doe pulled.

However, I believe the survival rates aren't looking too promising for the wee fella so I don't want to get my hopes up. I have taken the kit away from mum, and tried taking him back for a feeding. The doe was very patient and allowed me to hold her still for the kit to suckle but he wouldn't latch on to her teat. He was looking around for it, but even rubbing his nose on it he wouldn't open his mouth for it. Would they drink if they had already been fed? When would the likely feed first after birth?

I read online that the first three days are crucial for feeding as they need the nutrients the does milk has to offer.

Any tips on keeping this kit going? I don't want to give up on him.

On another thought, if someone has a doe that has recently kindled in my town, would it be possible to foster it?

 

[EnglishSpot]

TB! I have heard your cry!!

Rabbit babies may not suckle for a full 24 hours after birth, since mom's milk may not come in for a day or so. My advice is to give her 5 or 6 sprigs of parsley from the grocery story twice a day; it'll help her milk come in. Don't panic yet.

If you want to make formula for him, mix 1/2 c. goat's milk, one egg yolk, and 1 tablespoon of corn syrup (Karo). Mix it, warm it, feed it to him with a dropper. Be patient with the doe. Odds aren't really up for a solo survival, since it's siblings keep it warm and the constant motion of them make it pee. So. You can carry it around in your bra for warmth (if you're a woman), and when you dropper feed it, be sure to wiggle him around like he's getting jostled by siblings. Return the nest box to mom twice a day so she has the opportunity to nurse your solo.

This can be done, as I have a runt I'm working to keep alive, and it's working. Thankfully, it has sibs to keep warm with. Don't overfeed the baby on formula and let him be hungry by the time you take the box out to the doe for nursing. A heating pad is a good thing if you can't wear the kit, since it can't regulate it's temperature for a few days yet. Just be sure to have some spot where it can wiggle away from the heating pad.

Good luck and keep us updated!!

 

[Tbgb1912]

TB! I have heard your cry!!

Rabbit babies may not suckle for a full 24 hours after birth, since mom's milk may not come in for a day or so. My advice is to give her 5 or 6 sprigs of parsley from the grocery story twice a day; it'll help her milk come in. Don't panic yet.

If you want to make formula for him, mix 1/2 c. goat's milk, one egg yolk, and 1 tablespoon of corn syrup (Karo). Mix it, warm it, feed it to him with a dropper. Be patient with the doe. Odds aren't really up for a solo survival, since it's siblings keep it warm and the constant motion of them make it pee. So. You can carry it around in your bra for warmth (if you're a woman), and when you dropper feed it, be sure to wiggle him around like he's getting jostled by siblings. Return the nest box to mom twice a day so she has the opportunity to nurse your solo.

This can be done, as I have a runt I'm working to keep alive, and it's working. Thankfully, it has sibs to keep warm with. Don't overfeed the baby on formula and let him be hungry by the time you take the box out to the doe for nursing. A heating pad is a good thing if you can't wear the kit, since it can't regulate it's temperature for a few days yet. Just be sure to have some spot where it can wiggle away from the heating pad.

Good luck and keep us updated!!

Thank you for that! Luckily I have plenty of parsley available so I will see how she goes. I have a wheat bag that I'm warming up for him so hopefully he stays warm.
I'll have to go get ingredients for the formula - corn syrup, glucose syrup right?

Will keep you updated

 

[katiebear]

Great job warming the little one up..yes it is hard to keep a lone kit going but EnglishSpot gave you great advice..If you do not have a heating pad a bottle filled with hot (not to hot) water and put in a sock works well also. Does usually feed at dusk and dawn, you can keep the kit in a nest box with a heat source and take the box out for feeding..don't worry about the searching for a nipple they suckle for a second or two then move to another perfectly normal.if he is not pooping and peeing on his own just rub his belly and hoo-ha with a warm washcloth. just picking him up should make him pee... :lol: Best of luck with the little guy..

You should be able to find corn syrup in the grocery store by the baking stuff or by the pancake syrup...it is pretty common here Karo is a brand name, I think it is the only manufacturer here.I believe Miss M said you can use molasses as well......

 

[Miss M]

Okay, there are a couple of replies already! I don't have time to read them, so I'll just post this and hope it's not too repetitive. :roll: :

You should keep the nest box inside, and give the kit something warm to snuggle with. It can be as simple as a warmed (very warm) water bottle inside a sock. It could be a sock filled with dry rice or beans that you can microwave to heat up. You can put the nest box halfway onto a heating pad on low (not all the way on, because the kit has to have a way to get away from the heat if it needs to). If the kit can't stay warm, it won't be able to digest any milk it does get.

Yes, he'd latch on and feed some more even if he had already been fed. He's having trouble figuring out how to nurse. Unfortunately, if it can't figure out how to nurse, its only chance will be formula -- and the chances on formula with a newborn that is not getting any milk from the doe are not good. I've raised them from a few days old on mostly formula, but not from newborn.

Here is a link to a formula recipe: formula-feeding-baby-bunnies-pics-vids-t3691.html

I hope he can figure out nursing. If he can't figure out how to latch on to his own mom, fostering won't help him. Maybe you can try to keep him going with a little formula until he figures it out. It is entirely up to you how far you want to try with the kit.

 

[Tbgb1912]

Great job warming the little one up..yes it is hard to keep a lone kit going but EnglishSpot gave you great advice..If you do not have a heating pad a bottle filled with hot (not to hot) water and put in a sock works well also. Does usually feed at dusk and dawn, you can keep the kit in a nest box with a heat source and take the box out for feeding..don't worry about the searching for a nipple they suckle for a second or two then move to another perfectly normal.if he is not pooping and peeing on his own just rub his belly and hoo-ha with a warm washcloth. just picking him up should make him pee... :lol: Best of luck with the little guy..

You should be able to find corn syrup in the grocery store by the baking stuff or by the pancake syrup...it is pretty common here Karo is a brand name, I think it is the only manufacturer here.I believe Miss M said you can use molasses as well......

I'm assuming he would only be pooping and peeing after being fed correct? I shouldn't worry yet?


I'll only be needing a couple of syringes of the formula, so what can I do with the rest of it? Can I keep reheating it to use? Do I put the leftover in the fridge? Make a new batch every time? Just thinking ahead in case I have to resort to formula feeding the wee fella

 

[EnglishSpot]

I make up a single batch of formula, heat up what I think I might need in a separate shot glass (7 seconds in the microwave or you can double boiler it with a pan of water on the stove) and refrigerate the rest in a glass measuring cup. It's easy enough to make more. That thread Miss M posted was right--it's pretty much the ingredients of egg nog, so taste the formula if you think it might be getting "off". You'll know if you want to feed the formula or not from the taste of it! (taste a fresh batch for comparison)

Pooping and peeing after eating, like you and me. It's a good sign, means things are working!

My runt didn't drink a whole lot at first, so I fed him five times a day, whenever he started looking scary skinny. After two very intensive days of formula feeding, he managed to figure out the nursing thing and began to beat his siblings to breakfast, having gained strength from the formula. Without it, he would not have survived. He's 8 days old now and we will still give a supplement feeding to him in the middle of the day. He looks like a mouse next to his whale-like siblings.

If he can get a breakfast or dinner in with mom, that goes a long way for survival. Keep Han Solo warm and fed!!

 

[katiebear]

not to worry with the pooping and peeing it is just something to watch for..as long as he is eating that shouldn't be a problem.
You can freeze the goat milk formula , use a clean ice cube tray and then you will have already measured amounts. one cube will be enough for a couple of feedings. just freeze then pop into a zip lock bag.

 

[Tbgb1912]

I've read that it is possible to overfeed kits, so should I just be trying to get one or two syringes full into the wee fella at one time?

I will keep trying him with the doe and see if her milk has come through and if he will suckle. Fingers crossed for her feeding him, as it would make it a lot easier for all of us.

 

[katiebear]

When he looks like he swallowed a marble he is good.. And yes momma is best but it is like E.S. said sometimes it can be 24 hours so don't worry..there is enough in their system from before birth. If he starts to look sunken or really wrinkled then feed. I think one dropper at first..then give more later..just keep him warm so he can digest..

 

[MaggieJ]

When you take the kit to the doe for feeding, leave them together and go away for awhile - maybe an hour or so. It will give mom a chance to relax and will increase the chance that the kit will get a meal. They often don't like to be watched while nursing and may not let down the milk.

You;ll be able to tell if the kit is full - it will look as though it has swallowed a grape.

This thread will give you some pictures for comparison.
fed-vs-unfed-kit-pictures-t3052.html

 

[Miss M]

EnglishSpot, it's good to know that they can get the nursing thing down after a couple of days of help! I hadn't had one make it that far yet, if they couldn't figure out nursing.

 

[Tbgb1912]

Is it likely he will survive if the doe feeds him? I should keep him on the heat pad right, not back with the doe in the nest box where he's likely to get cold? I've seen a lot of unsuccessful posts.. <br /><br /> -- Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:56 pm -- <br /><br /> It's been a bumpy road for the wee guy so far. I had him on a heat pad, which was covered in a blanket, with the does fur and straw but he got too hot and was squealing. I had to cool him down, and had to figure out another way of keeping him warm. This also made him very dehydrated, so instead of waiting for the does milk to come through, I mixed up some formula (goats milk, egg yolk and corn syrup as suggested) I maganged to get a bit into him (In the process our kitten tried licking up the formula from the mug and tipped it all over my cables and chargers -.- ) he is now inside a box which I have placed on top of the heat pad, which seems to be doing the trick so far.
Unfortunately his body heat alone isn't enough in the nest, as I've discovered. So difficult maintaining a steady temperature.

Here's to hoping he survives the night.

 

[Preitler]

My suggestion would be to put the heat pad to one side, and not the kit on top of it. As far as I have seen they find the area of comfortable temperature by themself, crawling to or from the heat or cold source inside the fur and hay pile.

On the other hand, controlling the temperature in the box would ensure that it doesn't end up somewhere where it's too cold/hot...

:good-luck:

 

[EnglishSpot]

EnglishSpot, it's good to know that they can get the nursing thing down after a couple of days of help! I hadn't had one make it that far yet, if they couldn't figure out nursing.

In addition to formula feeding, I would flip the doe and let Hungry nuzzle around on her teats. A few times he did manage to get a few mouthfuls of milk, but I sat with him and the doe for the better part of 40 minutes while he shuffled around checking things out. Thankfully, I had the time and inclination to do it. While he initially didn't get a lot to eat from her, he got lots of practice going from nipple to nipple.

 

[Miss M]

he is now inside a box which I have placed on top of the heat pad

You have it only partially on the heating pad? You don't want it all on the heating pad.

 

[Tbgb1912]

Yes, the box is only over top of half the heat pad

I'm relieved to say the wee fella survived the night. And spent ten minutes sniffing around under the doe this morning snatching mouthfuls. I managed to get a wee stream of pee out of him too, afterwards.

I'll try him again with the doe tonight, when I'm home from work.

So far so good! <br /><br /> -- Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:31 pm -- <br /><br /> Update: I came home from work for lunch and formula fed the wee guy a syringe full. Came home tonight and he got a good feeding from my doe, I sat her on my lap and she happily obliged and even starting cleaning the kit.

When would I be able to stop worrying so much and believe he could make it through? Several weeks old?
Should I risk the wee guy and leave him in the nest box from now on, or is he likely to still catch the chill as he doesn't have litter mates keeping the temperature up?

 

[Miss M]

That's great, that he's making it! You're doing a great job, helping him get some nursing done, and supplementing with a little formula.

When would I be able to stop worrying so much and believe he could make it through? Several weeks old?
Should I risk the wee guy and leave him in the nest box from now on, or is he likely to still catch the chill as he doesn't have litter mates keeping the temperature up?

If he makes it to a week and is growing, furring out, and active, you should be able to breathe a sigh of relief at that point.

He will still need the company of his heating pad until he's 2 - 3 weeks old, I think. At 2 weeks, he should be good and fuzzy, and he'll be able to keep up his body temperature much better. Right now, he can't regulate it at all and would almost certainly chill.

We had a litter of two alive once. One never grew, and died just shy of 2 weeks. The other was nice and furry, and we put him out with his nestbox in the cage with his mom. It was summer, and he did fine. If it had been cold, I might have kept him inside for another week.

 

[Tbgb1912]

How often should I be getting him to feed from the doe? I know she would only normally feed him once a day, but I don't know for how long? I've been trying him with her in the morning for ten minutes, a syringe of formula at lunch, doe again around 6pm and then a last try with her before bed time but at that stage she is jumpy and won't let him suckle. Is that too often?

 

[katiebear]

My does feed twice daily at dawn and dusk..but I have a super over achiever who feeds three times for the first week then down to two...so if she is feeding twice a day you should not need to supplement just keep him warm..