Help! Rapid Weight Loss & Death

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al7neu

al7neu

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Hi,

I had a litter of New Zealand Reds. They're 4 months old. A week ago I took them all to a rabbit show and they were in excellent condition--one senior doe was a bit thin but no one (judge, other breeders) seemed concerned.

A couple of days ago I found one very thin with a distended stomach. He died; I necropsied and didn't see anything wrong except that the digestive tract was inflated and the stomach full of fluid. The liver looked fit-for-consumption, and there was partially digested food and formed fecal pellets in the intestine.

I didn't notice any diarrhea in the cage at all.

Today two more are quite skinny, have somewhat distended bellies and are not eating, one is skinny and eating, and one is looking/acting normal. Still no diarrhea.

I have one senior doe that is a bit thin as well but active and normal.


So out of 5 juniors--
1 dead with weight loss & bloat
2 quite sick, weight loss and distended belly, not eating, noticeably lethargic
1 with weight loss and distended belly, eating
1 looking good

3 seniors
1 looking good
1 thin but active
1 looking good (but not living in the same vicinity)

They get unlimited hay and I was giving unlimited 18% pellets until recently.

I'm taking one to the vet tomorrow for diagnosis. Any idea what this could be?
 
The only thing I can think of, did you use the show's water? Do you use chlorine in Canada? A different disinfectant or perfume?
- Reason I ask, it seems as if the stomach probiotics are off, is there a feed store that has paste probiotics, near you?
 
18 percent is to rich for them. ... I would put Neo= chlor in there water ASAP. OR you will loose them all. Give hay for 2 days ... Hay and old fashion oats ONLY....I would also give them some gas medicine from the baby section at walmart. THat will help with bloat and it will stop the pain. They will start eating again. .. Then after that . You will need some Probiotics.
And dont free feed after 4 months old. ...18 percent should only be feed to does and youngs one. Until they are about 3.5 months old. THen switch to a lower one. They are not getting enough fiber in there diet. And the other thing as you mentioned that you had one thin one going to the show. I automatic thought of worms. It could as be a parasite ... I would still follow what i said.
 
Not a vet: the following based solely on my experience.

Entropathic illness of some sort. The bloated tummies are the give away on this.

You don't always get diarrhea, but you can get a day where they have a stringy clear fluid that comes out their bottoms and if you aren't looking for it can be missed.

Cause? I don't know is what it comes right down to. Something on the hay? the weather? basic genetics?

I've dealt with it off and on since I started out with rabbits....brought in by a doe who was given to me that simply didn't "Do Well" and had these odd jelly like. clear fluid type stuff once in a while. She had minor bloating but nothing to severe and seemed fair normal until I culled her because of those odd jelly poops. I've NEVER had diarrhea with it, but I do lose kits and the odd senior yet. I've learned to cull anything that has any type of a digestive upset at ANY stage of their life. For the most part I have it beaten except for when the weather is changing. Then it is more apt to come back to haunt me. IT IS NOT FUN, and is incredibly FRUSTRATING.

It matters not if you are feeding hay, good pellets, a varied diet, adequate water...nothing. Just do your best to breed it out.

What I have tried. Meds in the water. Meds by hand. Hay only. Oatmeal and hay. Fasting for a day. Running in a bigger cage for a week or three... and then what I learned....force exercise, force fluids, offer prickly lettuce.

I've also learned...once they bloat ALL you can do is if you want to save them... every hour force exercise, force fluids give prickly lettuce. You can try giving a critical care type diet, but my best success is force fluids and exercise (swimming is great) and prickly lettuce. OH my.. how I've learned to love prickly lettuce.

If you aren't prepared for hourly forcing of fluids and exercise, be kind and just cull them.
 
I lost 3 rabbits in a similar manner. Rapid weight loss & they just seemed to waste within a week & die! Pooping & eating normally. I tried ivermectin in case it was parasites but it did nothing. I got rid of everything they had touched or been near.
 
I agree that free feeding 18% is too much protein. They should be getting 16%, 1oz of pellets, by weight, per lb, per day. So a 6lb rabbit gets 6oz of pellets per day. For now, remove pellets, give hay or oatmeal only, fresh water, ProBios or BeneBac paste twice a day to regenerate good stomach bacteria. GasX strips or baby gas drops and tummy massage will help with the bloat, as will exercise. Prickly lettuce, dandelion greens, and plantain will help as well.
 
the percent protein is NOT the problem.
many people feed an 18% protein ration without issue.

The issue goes beyond the protein levels.

my rabbits have been on everything from 15-18% protein without issue, except for the hollands, they couldn't handle 18%, right now all mine are on a 17% protein ration and doing just fine with that.

I would suggest measure feeding all rabbits that aren't on kits though. 3/4 cup each should be all they need.
 
ladysown":21cf67r3 said:
the percent protein is NOT the problem.
many people feed an 18% protein ration without issue.

The issue goes beyond the protein levels.
Click to expand...

Ladysown,

I am not saying that the protein is the PROBLEM here, maybe I was unclear. I was just commenting that free feeding 18% is too much protein. Whatever is causing the illness, which I agree is likely some kind of enteropathic bug, that much protein is not helping matters.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. I will ration their pellets from now on. They just seemed to be in such great condition (not fat and well muscled) so I thought that was working well. I'll see about switching to a lower protein as well. They were on a high protein diet as that is what the breeder fed hers. I'm going to the vet in an hour and I'll post what happens and the results of any tests we have run.
 
al7neu, keep in mind that the vet visit is likely to cost you several hundred dollars. You may find it cheaper to just replace them...very few of us here take our rabbits to the vet, mostly because spending $400 on a $25 rabbit makes no sense, unless it is a treasured family pet.
 
OAF, I may have come on stronger than intended, but more than one person said that the percent of protein was the problem. When there is more going on here than the percent protein. the protein may contribute, but if that's what the breeder uses, and is what she has been using, there is more going on here and I'd be hesitant to make a switch until it is clearer what is going on.

She could easily have picked up something in the hay being fed, now has a bug in her herd and needs to figure out which rabbits to keep, and which to cull. The ones that pull through it WITHOUT assistance are the ones that she wants to keep. The rest should go into her stew pot BEFORE they get really thin and boney.
 
ladysown":362q34ts said:
OAF, I may have come on stronger than intended, but more than one person said that the percent of protein was the problem. When there is more going on here than the percent protein. the protein may contribute, but if that's what the breeder uses, and is what she has been using, there is more going on here and I'd be hesitant to make a switch until it is clearer what is going on.

She could easily have picked up something in the hay being fed, now has a bug in her herd and needs to figure out which rabbits to keep, and which to cull. The ones that pull through it WITHOUT assistance are the ones that she wants to keep. The rest should go into her stew pot BEFORE they get really thin and boney.
Click to expand...

No worries! :) I knew it was just that I had not made myself clear.... I have had kits that cannot handle being weaned onto 18%, they bloat and struggle just like when they have mucoid enteropathy. I have also heard this from several others. With these rabbits being a bit older, it is likely some kind of enteropathy, as you say. I was not advocating that she switch feeds, just not FREE FEED...
 

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