Help! Dwindling Milk Production!

[Miss M]

Squeak's litter of 10 started out with two runts. No big deal, we've had runts before. Now it's six days later.

I'm not sure either of the runts has grown at all. They are so tiny! A third, our little prodigal who went without a couple of feedings while he wandered around in the dropped hay below the cages, is not much bigger. Two more are not much bigger than the prodigal. And a sixth one is bigger, but has fallen behind. Only four of the ten are growing steadily now. I don't know what to do... it's like Squeak's drying up or something! She has successfully raised litters of 6-8 before.

All of them, runts included, are spunky.

We started doing supplemental feedings for the two runts with this recipe:

1/2 Cup condensed goat's milk
1 egg yolk
1/2 Tablespoon corn syrup

I can get them to take it, but we haven't been home enough to do it a couple of times a day like I figured they needed. Now I've got more that need it.

Tonight, I took a different approach. I took out the four larger kits and brought them inside for a formula feeding, leaving the smaller six in the nest box, hoping they would get a good feeding.

I've looked at the herb list and such... I don't recognize any of those that say they increase milk production as being in our yard. Somebody mentioned calf manna... I don't even know what that is... somebody else said something about blackstrap in water... I think I saw something about oats. Is there a definite way to stimulate doe milk production?

 

[akane]

Calf manna can greatly increase the risk of mastitis. I was attempting to increase milk production through calf manna when that doe of mine developed severe mastitis which eventually led to hand feeding her kits and putting her down. Use with caution. Keep the cage floor wire extra clean to cut down on contaminants and make sure they are fully milking all teats on the doe. I've since thrown out my bag.

You can give a formula mix to the doe as a supplement and I found it worked as well as the calf manna. I would not use actual milk since adult animals cannot digest the fats and sugars in it but any type of formula including the stuff for cats that is sold at every feed and pet store will work. When I found the problem with the calf manna I switched to giving foal formula to my champagne doe for her first litter. I just dumped a bunch over her pellets. When I had more time I soaked pellets and formula powder together and fed as a warm mash. Anything that increases energy should theoretically help some with milk production. Molasses contains a lot of useful nutrients as well as sugar but it can cause diarrhea if used excessively so watch the amount. BOSS is the highest energy food item out there. It even tops corn for kcals. Of course any grains will add carbs. Also consider calcium supplements. You can break a capsule over their feed. With most animals if you feed heavy with a enough variety that they are getting all they need to make milk, plenty of calcium, and the kits keep trying to drink it will stimulate them enough.

If that fails there is probably a hormonal problem and if you really want to get things moving to save a litter of kits you can call a vet for a shot of oxytocin or something to trigger prolactin. Those 2 hormones control milk production.

 

[Miss M]

Thank you so much, Akane! I didn't think I'd get a reply at this hour!

We fed the larger kits, then did some other stuff, and then took them back out, hoping to find the other six fat and happy. They had not been fed yet. I couldn't put the larger kits in there with them, and have her get in there and nurse, only to have the little kits miss out again. So we took all of them inside, and we patiently hand-fed every one of the little kits, getting 3 1/2 - 4 droppers in them. They have bigger bellies now than I've seen in a while.

I'll look into getting some of the things you mentioned tomorrow. Thank you very much!!!

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

Miss M
there is a product made by Happy Jack-- called Milk-Ade, which is supposed to help stimulate milk production, I think it may be prudent to take out your doe, and check her nipple line for hot spots and non-functioning nipples. It is hard to believe that only 4 are thriving when she has been successful in the past. Kits wont nurse off a 'sick' teat-- so it the number of stations is reduced, only the stronger kits will have ample time to nurse before Mom leaves the box.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

We give our does a couple of tablespoons of Calf Manna twice a day while nursing. I have seen NO ill effects to the does from this and all of the babies are growing and thriving. I think some does are just more susceptible to mastitis and probably ANYTHING you give them to increase milk production could cause a problem. You can get it from Tractor Supply. It is a Manna Pro product, a pink pellet that smells like black licorice. The buns LOVE it, I call it Bunny Crack!

 

[Miss M]

How do you tell if a nipple is non-functioning?

Bunny Crack... :lol:<br /><br />__________ Sat May 21, 2011 5:41 pm __________<br /><br />Okay, we pulled Squeak out and looked at her and felt around her nipples. They all felt like she was about halfway between feedings -- not full, not empty. Somewhat firm, but with plenty of give -- far from hard. No hot spots. But nothing that felt squishy or looked non-functioning. So, I'm assuming, no mastitis, and no non-functioning nipples?

I'm not sure what to think. She seems fine, and it seems like she is feeding them. I'm sure some of those bunnies are getting fed by somebunny besides me.

An encouraging thing... the smallest ones are still spunky, and are a little rounder than they were yesterday. And they ate a LOT of formula today! Even more than last night -- the two smallest took 5 or 6 droppers' worth. We'll feed them again tonight (but not in the wee hours of the morning!).

We found some blackstrap molasses, and I used some to coat some rolled oats for Squeak. I think if I look farther away, I might find a place that carries some of these other things. There's not a Tractor Supply near me.

 

[ladysown]

You could consider splitting the litter in half. The big ones in one box, the small in another box.

THEN.. hold her over the little ones so they can nurse without competition. THEN remove them, and put the big ones in (not forcing her to nurse them until 10 hours later) give the little ones a supplemental feeding of your mixture.

Repeat this daily. It should at least help. Do be prepared to lose the littlest ones.

Give her lots to eat and drink. Encourage her to drink lots.

 

[MaggieJ]

Water consumption is important, as Ladysown points out. Sometimes flavouring the water encourage the doe to drink more. If you try this do it in addition to the regular water, not instead of... in case the doe doesn't go for it. A lot of rabbits love black tea or chamomile tea and these are safe for her. The tea does not need to be strong... maybe half strength. I've heard of people using Gatorade or apple juice added to water or dissolving a little blackstrap in the water. Just things you can try if you feel she needs to drink more.

Anything containing sugar may ferment if left too long, so be sure to change it regularly.

 

[Miss M]

*sigh* I am prepared to lose the littlest ones... I think. If I don't see them actually growing in the next day or two, I don't figure they will survive. They are eating, they are rounder, but they're not actually bigger yet.

Ladysown... you said "hold her over" them... What do you mean, exactly? Actually holding her? How do you force a doe to nurse? I don't see Squeak going for that, unless y'all know some bunny tricks I don't. I'm willing to learn!!

Thank you for the water flavoring tips, Maggie! I had completely forgotten that was an option. Do they drink the tea unsweetened? Or how much blackstrap does it take to flavor a 2L bottle of water? She is drinking, but I do want to make sure she's taking in as much as possible.

Changing water every day is enough to prevent fermentation, right? Even at 90* during the afternoon?

 

[SatinsRule]

Maryse has experienced absolutely zero problems with Calf Manna the whole time she's been nursing the First Five litter, and when the bunnicles realized what that stuff was that their mom was eating every morning, they began raiding it pretty much wholesale. "Bunny Crack" is a pretty apt nickname for it, as the bunnies will normally eat it readily.

Like any supplement, they're not a sure-fire additive which works with every rabbit every time.

 

[MaggieJ]

Do they drink the tea unsweetened? Or how much blackstrap does it take to flavor a 2L bottle of water? She is drinking, but I do want to make sure she's taking in as much as possible.

Changing water every day is enough to prevent fermentation, right? Even at 90* during the afternoon?

I don't think you need to sweeten the tea. Rabbits are supposed to like the taste on its own. For the molasses, I would use about what sticks to a teaspoon. It will be more than a measured teaspoon because it is so thick. Blackstrap has a lot of nutrients so it is the best sweetener for rabbits (or people). If you take a cup of hot water and stir the molasses into that, it will dissolve fairly easily and you can just add that to the larger bottle of water. Changing it once a day should be fine, I think.

I know I said this before, but I just want to repeat that any rabbit being given an "alternative beverage" must also have its regular water available.

 

[akane]

While I'm sure some does are just more prone to getting mastitis than others I found actual studies proving that calf manna increases the odds of mastitis in various species from rabbit to goat to cow. Maybe some of those would have gotten with other supplements to increase milk production but it is something to keep in mind and personally I'm not using calf manna again. There are plenty of other things that can provide the correct nutrients and energy through better quality ingredients. I never liked the ingredients in calf manna anyway.

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

remember this-- if adding anything with any type of sugar in it to the water (apple juice, Gatorade, molasses etc) and one is using a water bottle, the tube will get sticky-- so if it is a lever type, or ball type-- the flow can be compromised-- Change/clean the tube whenever you change the water!<br /><br />__________ Sun May 22, 2011 9:25 am __________<br /><br />

How do you tell if a nipple is non-functioning?

Umm, 'milk' it!!! a small squeeze, starting at the base, moving towards the end.If no milk droplet shows up, there is a problem,

Oh, Holding a doe over the kits--a lot easier than flipping the doe, in my book. Just place the doe over the kits-- the kits will flip over and nurse-- I found, if the doe is getting a treat she really likes, she ignores the activity under her. This leads to a more relaxed state, and the milk flows better as a result.

 

[Miss M]

Well, we lost our first one, the little chinchilla runt. I had just started to think he had turned the corner -- he had actually started growing! But then, I was wondering about the shape of his belly. Why was he so hungry when his tummy wasn't sunken in anymore? I wasn't sure. But we fed him until he quit because he zonked out, and he looked like a fat little frog if you turned him over, the way a frog looks when he's on his back. When he died, his belly was very distended, way more than when we fed him, like the stuff was spoiling in his gut. Maybe it was, if his organs were shutting down. Another odd thing was that his legs were really skinny. It's a shame. I was just letting myself start to think he just might make it, but maybe he had just missed too much his first few days.

Can you feed a kit too much? I mean, if the kit is still willingly sucking it in?

I have another one that looks like that. My little prodigal, a broken red. He was normal size until he got out of the cage and missed a couple of feedings; after that he was like one of the runts. But he looks just like the little chinchilla did before he died. His fur is dried stuck to him and discolored. I found a bunny berry on his behind when I turned him over, and it was mustard-colored. I guess he's getting smeared with it or something. His belly is full-looking, really abnormally so, yet he's still hungry. His legs are so skinny it's a wonder he can stand on them at all. He wobbles a lot, but has grown.

The litter is now 8 days old. The others, including the red runt, appear to be doing well and look normal, other than the fact that they are all different sizes.

I went ahead and added a bottle of molasses-flavored water (since that was the fastest option) to Squeak's bottle of plain water, and she is drinking it. Hopefully, this will help her produce the milk her babies need.

I'll be going to the feed store tomorrow (none of them are open on Sundays here), and I'll look into some sort of supplementation there.

LOL, Terry, I'm not sure why I didn't think of that... milking a rabbit just didn't occur to me. I may flip her over and see, but I think I'll wait on it for now. Thank you for clarifying the bit about holding her over the kits!

I really appreciate y'all helping me through this. I knew that eventually I'd have a bump in the road!

Is there anything the matter with the formula recipe I'm using? Would replacing corn syrup with blackstrap be advisable for feeding popples? Is my mixture too rich, since I am not diluting the evaporated goat's milk? Or since I've got twice the amount of egg yolk as a result?

 

[MaggieJ]

I wish I had some answers for you, Miss M, but I've never had to deal with that particular problem. Regarding the molasses water... I should have mentioned to watch and make sure it does not cause poopy butt in the doe. It shouldn't, at such a low concentration, but you never know.

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

!

I really appreciate y'all helping me through this. I knew that eventually I'd have a bump in the road!

I think bumpy roads are a specialty for many of us!!! Not sure I would know how to ride a smooth one!

 

[Miss M]

Thank you for the heads-up, Maggie! I will check.

I really appreciate y'all helping me through this. I knew that eventually I'd have a bump in the road!

I think bumpy roads are a specialty for many of us!!! Not sure I would know how to ride a smooth one!

:lol:

 

[tailwagging]

dog people sometimes give yams or sweet potato to their bitches to increasing milk production.

 

[ladysown]

yes you can overfeed kits.

yellow stuff is what my dad would call "scours". Generally means they are getting a system overload. Dry tail may resolve it. may not.

When I say "hold doe over the kits" that's exactly what I mean. you gently, yet firmly hold the doe in the nestbox.

the alternative is to flip her (two person job) and allow the kits to nurse from her when she's flipped over.

 

[Miss M]

dog people sometimes give yams or sweet potato to their bitches to increasing milk production.

I had no idea! I did a search real quick, and right off it looked like the links were all talking about sweet potato vines for milk production, but not necessarily mentioning the sweet potatoes themselves (I didn't visit very many links, though). Do I understand you correctly that they do actually give the sweet potatoes? Thanks!!

yes you can overfeed kits.

yellow stuff is what my dad would call "scours". Generally means they are getting a system overload. Dry tail may resolve it. may not.

When I say "hold doe over the kits" that's exactly what I mean. you gently, yet firmly hold the doe in the nestbox.

the alternative is to flip her (two person job) and allow the kits to nurse from her when she's flipped over.

Thank you, Ladysown! We scaled back the feeding for the prodigal, the smallest one we have now. Also, because of dental appointments for both my mom and me today, we did not feed the kits earlier, but only tonight. His tummy was looking a lot more reasonable. The remaining runt is looking better all the time. We gave no formula to the four largest, and one dropper each to the next three. The runt took several, and the prodigal took five. He probably would have continued, but we stopped him there so we wouldn't overfeed him. He looked nicely full. He was even grooming himself a little.