Hello

[NannersMom]

Hi, we adopted a bunny, Nanners, who came into our yard a couple of years ago. I came onto this forum b/c there was a discussion about New Zealand rabbits' eye color. Nanners is a white bunny with dark gray eyes. I read somewhere that New Zealand whites can only have red eyes, so I'm guessing he is not a New Zealand. Maybe he is a Vienna rabbit that is old and that is why his eyes are so dark. But I noticed that Vienna rabbits have short ears and Nanners' ears are long. His body is like a New Zealand, but his eyes are not. Here are some pictures and a video of him.

 

[hotzcatz]

Nanners could be what is called an "ermine" colored rabbit. It's a white rabbit with blue, blue gray, brown or even marbled eyes. Frequently an ermine will have stray dark hairs or bits of gray 'smut'. But not always.

The color genetics for ermine is A_ __ cchd or cchl __ ee.

It's not a recognized color for English angoras, which are the rabbits here, I don't know what the New Zealand rabbit folks think about the ermine color.

Nanners is a handsome rabbit and he looks happy, too. Welcome to RabbitTalk!

 

[NannersMom]

Thanks!! When he first showed up in our yard, he was all white, but after we brought him into the house, he grew a gray heart-shaped spot on his nose, which we used on our Easter cards (which I never sent out before we adopted him). We don't have any kids, so he is quite spoiled. You're angora bunny is beautiful!!

 

[hotzcatz]

With the gray heart on his nose, he's most more likely ermine and even more cute.

Bunnies like to be spoiled, the angoras here are technically 'livestock', but don't tell them that! They're pretty spoiled, too, although they don't get a lot of people attention, which I don't think they actually want. At least most of them are pretty happy to hang out with their herd and not those strange people critters although they do like the presentation of bunny treats.

Maybe an only bunny is happier around humans, they do like being social in their own bunny way.

 

[NannersMom]

The heart is almost gone now, but there are a few black hairs in that general area. He really is a beautiful bunny. My husband has anxiety issues and Nanners helps him greatly. Here is a video of him before we adopted him. He would show up and we fed him, and then fell in love with each other. LOL. So is his coloring rather rare? What does this mean his parents likely looked like?

 

[Alaska Satin]

Hi, we adopted a bunny, Nanners, who came into our yard a couple of years ago. I came onto this forum b/c there was a discussion about New Zealand rabbits' eye color. Nanners is a white bunny with dark gray eyes. I read somewhere that New Zealand whites can only have red eyes, so I'm guessing he is not a New Zealand. Maybe he is a Vienna rabbit that is old and that is why his eyes are so dark. But I noticed that Vienna rabbits have short ears and Nanners' ears are long. His body is like a New Zealand, but his eyes are not. Here are some pictures and a video of him.

He looks like an ermine, with those blue-gray eyes and dark tipping on the ends of his fur; as @hotzcatz said, ermines can range from pure white to complete covered in a "veil" of tipped hairs. Vienna rabbits (aka Blue-Eyed White) will not have any color whatsoever in their fur, and their eyes tend to be more of a bright or ice blue, rather than blue-gray. The newest accepted breed in the US is the Czech Frosty, which has ermine coloration leaning more to the "frosted" side rather than the more completely white.
Here is a good example from the Czech Frosty page 2022 ARBA Reno Exhibit – Czech Frosty


Your bunny look like a sweet, healthy mixed breed. He may very well be part New Zealand (yes, New Zealand Whites have pink eyes), but there's something else in there giving him that beautiful coloration.

By the way, Vienna refers to a coat coloration, and doesn't necessarily come with short ears or long: that's more related to the breed rather than the color of the rabbit. Here's a Beveren, with quite long ears, and which comes in black, pale blue and white, and has a fairly unusual body type called "mandolin." The white variety is a rabbit with two copies of the Vienna gene, which produces the pure white coat and blue eyes:

 

[NannersMom]

He looks like an ermine, with those blue-gray eyes and dark tipping on the ends of his fur; as @hotzcatz said, ermines can range from pure white to complete covered in a "veil" of tipped hairs. Vienna rabbits (aka Blue-Eyed White) will not have any color whatsoever in their fur, and their eyes tend to be more of a bright or ice blue, rather than blue-gray. The newest accepted breed in the US is the Czech Frosty, which has ermine coloration leaning more to the "frosted" side rather than the more completely white.

Your bunny look like a sweet, healthy mixed breed. He may very well be part New Zealand (yes, New Zealand Whites have pink eyes), but there's something else in there giving him that beautiful coloration.

By the way, Vienna refers to a coat coloration, and doesn't necessarily come with short ears or long. Here's a Beveren, with quite long ears, and which comes in black, pale blue and white, and has a farily unusual body type called "mandolin." The white variety is a rabbit with the Vienna gene which produces the pure white coat and blue eyes:
View attachment 37883

Thank you. Good to know about the Vienna whites ears. I was so confused by that b/c I saw some Vienna white pictures with rabbits with short ears and then rabbits with long ears.

 

[hotzcatz]

Most white rabbits are 'albino', which are also the ones who have the ruby eyes. Many folks in the rabbit world call them "REWS" (pronounced "ROOS") which stands for Ruby Eyed White. The color gentics for them is __ __ cc __ __. Rabbit color genetics have five main genes which are usually denoted by A, B, C, D & E. There's a few more, but those are the main ones. The "C" gene is for color or no color. Dominant C is Color, two recessives - cc - makes albino. There's some other modifiers on the C gene and your bunny has those. The Chinchilla gene (comes in light and dark chinchilla) is what makes the dark eyes on your white rabbit.

The Vienna gene is used to create a Blue Eyed White rabbit, or BEW. That's an entirely different gene from C, I think the Vienna gene is labelled 'en' (? I could be remembering that wrong, it seems 'v' would make more sense?) and is tacked onto the end of the first five color genes in the gene chart. There's a few extra genes other than the five main ones, the extra genes are for for Vienna, Dutch, long wool, rex fur, etc., etc. Rabbit coat color genetics can be quite the rabbit hole to jump into.

 

[MsTemeraire]

By the way, Vienna refers to a coat coloration, and doesn't necessarily come with short ears or long: that's more related to the breed rather than the color of the rabbit.

There is a breed called the Vienna in Europe - it's a fairly old breed and found in most European countries, but to my knowledge there are none in the USA. It comes in five colours - Grey (agouti), Opal, Black, Blue, and blue-eyed White, with the Blue being the most popular. The White Vienna was the first recorded BEW rabbit, which is why the Vienna gene is so-named, after the Vienna breed. Maybe the OP googled the Vienna breed.

Pic is a Blue Vienna, from Google, showing the type.

 

[MsTemeraire]

The Vienna gene is used to create a Blue Eyed White rabbit, or BEW. That's an entirely different gene from C, I think the Vienna gene is labelled 'en' (? I could be remembering that wrong, it seems 'v' would make more sense?)

It is V, and semi-dominant, meaning one copy produces a rabbit with white marks, and two copies - vv - makes a BEW. The white marks are extremely variable and can be a white toenail, a white foot, snip or blaze, right through to something resembling a Dutch.

The EN gene is 'English spotting' aka the Broken gene and not related to the Vienna gene.

 

[NannersMom]

With the gray heart on his nose, he's most more likely ermine and even more cute.

Bunnies like to be spoiled, the angoras here are technically 'livestock', but don't tell them that! They're pretty spoiled, too, although they don't get a lot of people attention, which I don't think they actually want. At least most of them are pretty happy to hang out with their herd and not those strange people critters although they do like the presentation of bunny treats.

Maybe an only bunny is happier around humans, they do like being social in their own bunny way.

He is like a toddler and smarter than some humans i know. I am astounded at how smart he is. Definitely smarter than dogs. Sometimes, smarter than me. Are all rabbits smart? I've not been around any other rabbits before. Here, he is exploring one of the Ring cameras we have in the basement, where he free roams.

 

[Alaska Satin]

There is a breed called the Vienna in Europe - it's a fairly old breed and found in most European countries, but to my knowledge there are none in the USA. It comes in five colours - Grey (agouti), Opal, Black, Blue, and blue-eyed White, with the Blue being the most popular. The White Vienna was the first recorded BEW rabbit, which is why the Vienna gene is so-named, after the Vienna breed. Maybe the OP googled the Vienna breed.

Pic is a Blue Vienna, from Google, showing the type.

Thanks for this! My understanding is that the Beveren was actually developed using the Blue Vienna, among others.

Looking at the photo you posted, that rabbit looks a lot like the Blue Holicer, a breed they're trying to get accepted into the ARBA standard. Do you know the relationship between the Vienna Blue and the Blue Holicer?

Another question: someone suggested to me that most or all rabbits in Europe are posed the way the Vienna is in that photo, with the forequarters lifted off the table. Do you know this to be true?

 

[ladysown]

Are all rabbits smart?

uh... NO, not all rabbits are smart. some are very much lacking in the brain cell department.

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

uh... NO, not all rabbits are smart. some are very much lacking in the brain cell department.

Can confirm, my rabbits can be pretty stupid sometimes

 

[NannersMom]

Nanners was famous on our street when he first showed up during the summer of 2021. He actually belonged to my neighbor who lived 2 doors down. She worked at a farm and brought him home after someone rescued him and dropped him off at the far. She had 3 rabbits and kept them outside. But one of them dug a hole in their outdoor living quarters and got out. I think the other 2 rabbits got eaten, but Nanners survived for months. He would go house to house and beg for food. This first picture of him at the brown house actually came up on that app Nextdoor, when someone first spotted him. He was the talk of the neighborhood. Here is another picture of him on my front door steps, and then another one where he is spying on us from our arborvidae bushes waiting for us to come out. LOL. As it got colder, we were worried he would freeze to death outside and asked our neighbor if we could adopt him to let him free roam in our house. It was a bit weird asking someone for their pet. But she was really gracious and told me that "he chose" us. We took him to the vet before we brought him in to make sure he didn't have any bugs and the vet was shocked he survived so long outside. Now he is living large.

 

[Alaska Satin]

Nanners was famous on our street when he first showed up during the summer of 2021. He actually belonged to my neighbor who lived 2 doors down. She worked at a farm and brought him home after someone rescued him and dropped him off at the far. She had 3 rabbits and kept them outside. But one of them dug a hole in their outdoor living quarters and got out. I think the other 2 rabbits got eaten, but Nanners survived for months. He would go house to house and beg for food. This first picture of him at the brown house actually came up on that app Nextdoor, when someone first spotted him. He was the talk of the neighborhood. Here is another picture of him on my front door steps, and then another one where he is spying on us from our arborvidae bushes waiting for us to come out. LOL. As it got colder, we were worried he would freeze to death outside and asked our neighbor if we could adopt him to let him free roam in our house. It was a bit weird asking someone for their pet. But she was really gracious and told me that "he chose" us. We took him to the vet before we brought him in to make sure he didn't have any bugs and the vet was shocked he survived so long outside. Now he is living large.

Great story! Nanners is a particularly good-looking rabbit, I have to say, and obviously in great condition due to your care.

But I wonder about the vet you consulted and his/her shock about Nanner's survival. Rabbits are very cold-hardy and adaptable. We actually have a huge problem, from Seward to Anchorage to the Interior, with domestic rabbits gone feral. They thrive and reproduce like rabbits and ruin gardens... and that's with Alaska's long cold winters and many, many motivated predators.

 

[Julie Stade]

But I wonder about the vet you consulted and his/her shock about Nanner's survival. Rabbits are very cold-hardy and adaptable.

Maybe their area is like ours where the "shock" wouldn't have anything to do with the temperatures. We're pretty much hawk/owl-central around here, and by the time the foxes and coyotes are added in, even outdoor cats tend to have a very short lifespan (and she did say that 2 of the 3 rabbits had been eaten). Just yesterday I had a momentary freak-out when I walked inside the 6' outer perimeter of my rabbit area because there were clumps of rabbit fur on the ground south of my maternity building. A moment later I realized it was Chestnut hair, and we currently have no agouti rabbits, so I knew they'd just killed a cottontail outside my south chain-link and the wind had blown the fur north.

 

[MsTemeraire]

Looking at the photo you posted, that rabbit looks a lot like the Blue Holicer, a breed they're trying to get accepted into the ARBA standard. Do you know the relationship between the Vienna Blue and the Blue Holicer?

I don't think they are that closely related but the Holicer is smaller, and to my knowledge should be lighter in colour than the Vienna.

Another question: someone suggested to me that most or all rabbits in Europe are posed the way the Vienna is in that photo, with the forequarters lifted off the table. Do you know this to be true?

Yes - Germany in particular. This website showcases all the German breeds and it's not hard to see the preferred posing. They also breed for very thickly furred ears and in many cases a cylindrical body type.
kaninchenrassen

 

[Alaska Satin]

Maybe their area is like ours where the "shock" wouldn't have anything to do with the temperatures. We're pretty much hawk/owl-central around here, and by the time the foxes and coyotes are added in, even outdoor cats tend to have a very short lifespan (and she did say that 2 of the 3 rabbits had been eaten). Just yesterday I had a momentary freak-out when I walked inside the 6' outer perimeter of my rabbit area because there were clumps of rabbit fur on the ground south of my maternity building. A moment later I realized it was Chestnut hair, and we currently have no agouti rabbits, so I knew they'd just killed a cottontail outside my south chain-link and the wind had blown the fur north.

I'd still be amazed if feral domestic rabbits couldn't survive in a suburban setting. We've got hawks, owls - generally their populations go up and down with the rodents' numbers - as well as wolves, coyotes, foxes, bear (blacks and browns), lynx, marten, weasel, ermine, otter, mink, eagles and ravens (which are actually one of the most destructive predators, when they're feeding nestlings), to name a few that come to mind. Do they take rabbits? Of course they do. We and our neighbors have lost small dogs, cats, rabbits, chickens and quail to nearly all of the above. But feral animals have a lot more options to get away from predators than captive animals, and while some rabbits are pretty clueless (see comments above ), lots of others are pretty savvy.

I guess I'm just not shocked at rabbits' ability to survive, since in every place I've ever lived (CA, FL, HI, OH, AK, as well as fieldwork in WA, OR, NV and Saskatchewan), the urban and/or suburban areas or villages have had feral rabbits, even when they're not "subsidized" by feeding and don't have those thick, abundant bushes and hedges to hide in that appear in the photos posted by the OP.

 

[eco2pia]

So is his coloring rather rare? What does this mean his parents likely looked like?

Once upon a decade or so ago when I was new to breeding mostly NZ red rabbits, I crossed one on a mutt doe I had, and she was brown like a wild rabbit, but she carried chinchilla which is a silver color. So out of a wild brown rabbit and a copper red rabbit I got a whole bunch of frosties (or ermines) like this. I saw them as pink naked little babies and expected them to grow up white with red eyes, but when their eyes opened they were dark.

Being new, somewhere on this forum, I asked "when do their eyes turn red?" and everyone chimed in to tell me they start out red! I was very confused lol.

His parents could have been brown, or white, or red, or silver, unfortunately rabbit colors are sometimes complicated. But I like to think the classic way to get this color is crossing red with silver (chinchilla). It also happens to be my two favorite colors of rabbit.