Hello from North Idaho

[Harbisgirl]

Hi! I've been researching meat rabbits for years but I'm finally ready to take the plunge this Spring. Here is my plan - let me know if anything sounds incorrect or needs improvement. I'm totally open to suggestions! I'm on a very tight budget so if I'm wasting money somewhere, please let me know.

I plan on starting with a breeding trio.

I'll have 4 hanging cages, 36x30 each, from KW Cages. From what I've penciled out, it looks like I could save about $100 if I made all of the cages myself ...but I have very little free time so it would take me quite awhile to get them assembled and I think the $100 would be worth the time spent. They'll be housed in a barn. I'd like to build them a little ramp that leads to a run outside, like Bobby from the Rabbitry Center uses. As far as I know there is no RVHD in my area, and I have Livestock Guardian Dogs so they'll be safe from predators. Grow outs will be raised in a larger cage or in a tractor on pasture, depending on the time of year.

I'm a little confused on J feeders. What size do I need for a single rabbit, and what size for a litter of grow outs? I'd rather have it a little larger than needed - to accomodate once a day feeding. I'm happy to feed once a day but when we are gone, our Farm Sitter only comes once a day so I'd like to plan for that.

Hay feeder, nesting box, etc will be made from scrap I have laying around the farm.

I live in a cold climate so I'm still working out how the heated water system is going to work. In the meantime I'll use heated rabbit water bottles (the one on amazon). If anyone has a more elaborate heated water system for winter, I'd love to see it!

I'll feed them high quality rabbit pellets and Timothy Hay from our local feed mill

My biggest concern is sourcing quality breeders. My #1 goal is meat for the freezer. I've found a number of Rex breeders in the area but I want fatties LOL I'm not interested in Pedigreed rabbits necessarily, but I want quality. My first thought is to get New Zealand does and a Californian buck (or visa versa) to cash in on that Hybrid Vigor? That might be too hard to find in my area though, I live in a rural area. If anyone happens to know of quality meat rabbits in North Idaho then I'd love to know about it.

 

[Alaska Satin]

Hi! I've been researching meat rabbits for years but I'm finally ready to take the plunge this Spring. Here is my plan - let me know if anything sounds incorrect or needs improvement. I'm totally open to suggestions! I'm on a very tight budget so if I'm wasting money somewhere, please let me know.

I plan on starting with a breeding trio.

I'll have 4 hanging cages, 36x30 each, from KW Cages. From what I've penciled out, it looks like I could save about $100 if I made all of the cages myself ...but I have very little free time so it would take me quite awhile to get them assembled and I think the $100 would be worth the time spent. They'll be housed in a barn. I'd like to build them a little ramp that leads to a run outside, like Bobby from the Rabbitry Center uses. As far as I know there is no RVHD in my area, and I have Livestock Guardian Dogs so they'll be safe from predators. Grow outs will be raised in a larger cage or in a tractor on pasture, depending on the time of year.

I'm a little confused on J feeders. What size do I need for a single rabbit, and what size for a litter of grow outs? I'd rather have it a little larger than needed - to accomodate once a day feeding. I'm happy to feed once a day but when we are gone, our Farm Sitter only comes once a day so I'd like to plan for that.

Hay feeder, nesting box, etc will be made from scrap I have laying around the farm.

I live in a cold climate so I'm still working out how the heated water system is going to work. In the meantime I'll use heated rabbit water bottles (the one on amazon). If anyone has a more elaborate heated water system for winter, I'd love to see it!

I'll feed them high quality rabbit pellets and Timothy Hay from our local feed mill

My biggest concern is sourcing quality breeders. My #1 goal is meat for the freezer. I've found a number of Rex breeders in the area but I want fatties LOL I'm not interested in Pedigreed rabbits necessarily, but I want quality. My first thought is to get New Zealand does and a Californian buck (or visa versa) to cash in on that Hybrid Vigor? That might be too hard to find in my area though, I live in a rural area. If anyone happens to know of quality meat rabbits in North Idaho then I'd love to know about it.

Do it! Yay!

I expect you will be happy you paid an extra $100 for pro-built cages. Not only will the cages probably be sturdier/more true than if you handled the wire yourself, especially at that size, but there is a definite learning curve for building cages, and wire is a real pain to work with. I get all my my "rabbit wounds" from cages and carriers, not the rabbits themselves!

J-feeders come in lots of variations, and the small ones are fine for single rabbits, but going bigger offers more options. We feed once a day here. I usually figure a volume of roughly a cup of pellets a day per rabbit. Some eat more, others less, but it's been a good rule of thumb for me. Six inch feeders are a good compromise, but for your growout cages you might want even bigger. Or consider more than one; resource guarding is a component of the hierarchy the rabbits will establish, so having more than one food source can be helpful. There are a couple of other details about feeders that I've found important, as well.

First is to get the feeders with some sort of screen or holes in the bottom to allow the fines to sift through. All-solid metal feeders can have a build up of fines to the point that pellets can no longer fill the tray. You can clean them out, of course, but it's a pain. I like the ones with holes drilled best. They're not quite as efficient at screening out fines as the ones with a wire mesh bottom, but the wire mesh tears/separates/deforms fairly easily, so that you start having pellets falling out the bottom, and so those don't last as long.

The other is that depending on your rabbits, typical j-feeder troughs can make it hard for bucks to eat. My Satins have big beautiful masculine buck heads, and they can barely smash their faces into the trays of the small j-feeders; they sometimes wear away the fur on the sides of their noses trying. So finding a feeder with a wider tray might be helpful if you've got manly bucks. My favorites are EZ Feeders from BunnyRabbit.com
https://bunnyrabbit.com/price/feeders.htm#EZ Feeder

They also offer another that looks really good, with a wider tray and you don't have to cut into the cage. I haven't tried them yet (my budget says I already have enough feeders) but if I was starting out I'd probably give these a try, even though they're a bit more expensive.
https://bunnyrabbit.com/price/feeders.htm#no cut


Another feeder note is to think about installing them a bit higher than you're first inclined, because that may help keep your rabbits from digging out and wasting the feed.

Regarding a heated watering system, there are probably some clever folks on this forum who will have options. However, I have never used one here in Alaska and don't feel it's necessary. Heated water bottles would most likely be more convenient, but they are expensive to buy (I have more than four cages) and I don't want to pay for the electricity to run them, or have extension cords all over. I use crocks/bowls during the winter and fill them with warm water 1-2x a day. Even if the water freezes almost immediately, the rabbits can chew/lick the ice. But I also freeze blocks of ice (I use empty yogurt or cottage cheese containers, then take the ice blocks out before I give them to the rabbits) with apple cores or carrot peelings frozen into the block; the rabbits chew on this throughout the day so they stay hydrated, keep their teeth trimmed, and use it as a toy. This seems to be a good way to keep our rabbits in great shape.

There are a number of other discussions on this forum regarding providing water in winter - see for instance https://rabbittalk.com/threads/water-bottles-in-winter.37733/#post-366202

You're right to prioritize starting with good stock. You'll feed low-quality rabbits as much or more than high-quality rabbits, and get less meat and possibly more headaches. Finding a meat breeder who has good production records would be great. Buying stock from a successful breeder who is interested in what you are doing and is willing to help you through the inevitable learning curve is the best of all.

Breeding NZ x Cal is not necessarily the best bet; hybrid vigor is a real thing, but linebreeding for high production value and good mothering is too. The short version is that not all genetic lines combine well, so unless you already know someone who is doing that cross and has lines that mesh, you might be better off with purebreds from someone who has a good track record. Be sure to inquire about temperament, as well. There are high-production meat breeders that do not pay any attention to temperament and as a result have some pretty witchy rabbits. Not only is this disconcerting and unpleasant for a small breeder, but those rabbits also often have high stress levels and so are not always as healthy or resilient as stock that has been selected for calm demeanor/easy handling.

Buying young stock is another option that may help the rabbits become accustomed to you and your facility and methods. It's tempting to buy "proven" adults and get going right away, but in my experience just because rabbits performed well somewhere else doesn't mean they'll do the same at your place, and older rabbits tend to have a harder time to adjusting to change. Buying a bred doe along with some juniors might be a good compromise, if you can find that opportunity.

You can look up rabbit breeders in your area on the ARBA website. https://arba.net/find-a-breeder/ They'll mostly be show breeders, but in the meat breeds, a good show rabbit is a good meat rabbit. They may or may not be high-end producers or great mothers, however - you'd have to communicate with the breeder. But show breeders sometimes sell their "color culls" unpedigreed for a quite a bit less, so you can sometimes get very nice stock for the same price as lower-end rabbits, especially if you find a breeder who wants to help you get going. I've given folks super deals on Satins and Champagne D'Argents and helped them get going because I really believe in encouraging people to become more self-sufficient.

Good luck and God bless!

 

[Harbisgirl]

Do it! Yay!

I expect you will be happy you paid an extra $100 for pro-built cages. Not only will the cages probably be sturdier/more true than if you handled the wire yourself, especially at that size, but there is a definite learning curve for building cages, and wire is a real pain to work with. I get all my my "rabbit wounds" from cages and carriers, not the rabbits themselves!

J-feeders come in lots of iterations, and the small ones are fine for single rabbits, but going bigger offers more options. We feed once a day here. I usually figure a volume of roughly a cup of pellets a day per rabbit. Some eat more, others less, but it's been a good rule of thumb for me. Six inch feeders are a good compromise, but for your growout cages you might want even bigger. There are a couple of details about feeders that I've found important, though.

First is to get the feeders with some sort of screen or holes in the bottom to allow the fines to sift through. All-solid metal feeders can have a build up of fines to the point that pellets can no longer fill the tray. You can clean them out, of course, but it's a pain. I like the ones with holes drilled best. They're not quite as efficient at screening out fines as the ones with a wire mesh bottom, but the wire mesh tears/separates/deforms fairly easily, so that you start having pellets falling out the bottom, and so those don't last as long.

The other is that depending on your rabbits, typical j-feeder troughs can make it hard for bucks to eat. My Satins have big beautiful masculine buck heads, and they can barely smash their faces into the trays of the small j-feeders; they sometimes wear away the fur on the sides of their noses trying. So finding a feeder with a wider tray might be helpful if you've got manly bucks. My favorites are EZ Feeders from BunnyRabbit.com
https://bunnyrabbit.com/price/feeders.htm#EZ Feeder
View attachment 44577View attachment 44578
They also offer another that looks really good, with a wider tray and you don't have to cut into the cage. I haven't tried them yet (my budget says I already have enough feeders) but if I was starting out I'd probably give these a try even, though they're a bit more expensive.
https://bunnyrabbit.com/price/feeders.htm#no cut
View attachment 44579View attachment 44580

Another feeder note is to think about installing them a bit higher than you're first inclined, because that may help keep your rabbits from digging out and wasting the feed.

Regarding a heated watering system, there are probably some clever folks on this forum who will have options. However, I have never used one here in Alaska and don't feel it's necessary. Heated water bottles would most likely be more convenient, but they are expensive to buy (I have more than four cages) and I don't want to pay for the electricity to run them, or have extension cords all over. I use crocks/bowls during the winter and fill them with warm water 1-2x a day. Even if the water freezes almost immediately, the rabbits can chew/lick the ice. But I also freeze blocks of ice (I use empty yogurt or cottage cheese containers, then take the ice blocks out before I give them to the rabbits) with apple cores or carrot peelings frozen into the block; the rabbits chew on this throughout the day so they stay hydrated, keep their teeth trimmed, and use it as a toy. This seems to be a good way to keep our rabbits in great shape.

There are a number of other discussions on this forum regarding providing water in winter - see for instance https://rabbittalk.com/threads/water-bottles-in-winter.37733/#post-366202

You're right to prioritize starting with good stock. You'll feed low-quality rabbits as much or more than high-quality rabbits, and get less meat and possibly more headaches. Finding a meat breeder who has good production records would be great. Buying stock from a successful breeder who is interested in what you are doing and is willing to help you through the inevitable learning curve is the best of all.

Breeding NZ x Cal is not necessarily the best bet; hybrid vigor is a real thing, but linebreeding for high production value is too. The short version is that not all genetic lines combine well, so unless you already know someone who is doing that cross and has lines that mesh, you might be better off with purebreds from someone who has a good track record. Be sure to inquire about temperament, as well. There are high-production meat breeders that do not pay any attention to temperament and as a result have some pretty witchy rabbits. Not only is this disconcerting and unpleasant for a small breeder, but those rabbits also often have high stress levels and so are not always as healthy or resilient as stock that has been selected for calm demeanor/easy handling.

Buying young stock is another option that may help the rabbits become accustomed to you and your facility and methods. It's tempting to buy "proven" adults and get going right away, but in my experience just because rabbits performed well somewhere else doesn't mean they'll do the same at your place, and older rabbits tend to have a harder time to adjusting to change. Buying a bred doe along with some juniors might be a good compromise, if you can find that opportunity.

You can look up rabbit breeders in your area on the ARBA website. https://arba.net/find-a-breeder/ They'll mostly be show breeders, but in the meat breeds, a good show rabbit is a good meat rabbit. They may or may not be high-end producers, however - you'd have to communicate with the breeder. But show breeders sometimes sell their "color culls" unpedigreed for a quite a bit less, so you can sometimes get very nice stock for the same price as lower-end rabbits, especially if you find a breeder who wants to help you get going. I've given folks super deals on Satins and Champagne D'Argents and helped them get going because I really believe in encouraging people to become more self-sufficient.

Good luck and God bless!

This is so helpful, thank you for taking the time to write that all out! I love that no-cut feeder. I think what confuses me about the feeders is that some are shown in inches but not capacity. 3inches, 6 inches or 10 inches is fine but it doesn't seem very helpful when you don't know how much it will hold? Or is there some kind of standard capacity per inch that I'm not familiar with? Is 6 inches enough for a manly buck? LOL I'd rather just buy these once (after a decade+ of homesteading I have learned that I am too poor to be cheap). Would I buy three 6inchers for the breeders, and two 10 inchers for grow outs (assuming I breed the does at the same time)?

It never occurred to me that they would just eat the ice. I feel quite silly now. What a lovely idea to freeze treats in with their water, I love that.

There are no ARBA breeders in my area Its a rural area so I'm not surprised.

 

[Bekah-n-Tennessee]

You've definitely done your homework and sounds like you're off to a great start!

I definitely agree with going with the KW cages versus building yourself initially. I have Bass Equipment cages (equivalent in quality/price to KW) and am very happy with them. Make sure you get the GAV (galvanized after weld) and the 14 gauge flooring and baby saver! (I'm not sure how the KW site is, I know for Bass I had to select all those upgrades.) I tried to go the economy route initially with wabbitat cages and let's just say those are now used for chicken transport . Once you have your quality cages, they'll be great to reference should you choose to build your own down the road. We built our growout hutches using the plans from Teal Stone Homestead, also our nesting boxes as well...highly recommend. 16 gauge flooring for the growout hutches is significantly less money and fine for the hutches considering those rabbits aren't in there long term and won't hit adult weight.

For the feeders, I did 7.5 inch sifting j feeders for the 30x36 cages and 11.5 inch sifting j feeders for the growout hutches (also from Bass and also don't state capacity). I went big just to be on the safe side and they are wide enough to allow for multiple munching mouths side by side. I have found they're plenty big enough for once a day feeding. The only time I'd get a little worried is if you have a mom and a large litter of older kits who are also eating pellets and still in the 30x36 cage with 7.5 inch feeder...it may still be good but I'd keep a closer eye on it. I check my unlimited feeders twice a day and top off so just never really tracked it myself, personally.

Have you looked into whether there are any rabbit shows in your general area? You can find shows/schedules on the ARBA website...attending one is a great way to see lots of different breeds of rabbits and talk to breeders face to face. I'd also add that you can also start out by just picking up a trio of mixed meat rabbits while you search out your better stock. I wanted to raise Silver Foxes but knew it would take some time to find and build up quality stock so, in the mean time, I picked up a trio of "meat mutts" with one doe already bred found in my local advertisements. I learned a ton very quickly getting that initial hands on with very inexpensive rabbits...everything from Equipment do's and don'ts (hence the cage replacements ), revamped some building designs, and learned how to process. Once I started bringing in my Silver Fox breeding stock, I processed the "starter" rabbits so there was really no loss.