Hay and "Keeping warm"

[Frosted Rabbits]

There seems to be a bit of confusion on how hay keeps a rabbit warm----

EXTERNALLY a cage stuffed with hay becomes a hay burrow, providing insulation from bitter cold and wind.

INTERNALLY hay keeps the gut moving. The gut movement (active digestion) helps maintain the rabbit's core body temp

There is no set 'amount' of hay to ensure the rabbit stays warm- a lot depends on the housing situation-and how the hay is being used. If eating the hay is the key reason for providing it, water is also just as important, as digestion cannot happen without it!!! Water is also important for all aspects of metabolism- a rabbit will dehydrate in the cold...

 

[akane]

Straw is a far better choice for giving a warm place to sleep. Straw does not go bad as easy as hay which will kill your rabbit if you leave peed on hay in the cage requiring hay to be checked and often removed frequently. Being hollow straw insulates better by using a cushion of air along with the plant matter. Then there's the fact the rabbit doesn't eat much of it if they have quality pellets and hay so their bed does not go away. We use straw in the nest boxes and cages in winter. Hay is for eating and kept in hay racks. Straw is for sleeping and nesting.

 

[Jessykah]

I agree. I am always curious as to why some people prefer hay for bedding... Straw is far superior. Unless of course one is unable to aquire straw, that is understandable. Straw also gives them something to chew on for boredom (there is often still some grain attached to some straw). Some kinds of straw are a better choice, depending on your standards and what you need it for. Some is more absorbent than other kinds.

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

Good quality straw is often hard to find. I will not bed my animals in straw that is not 'bright'- my feeling is the dull straw is home to fungi and molds that started growing before harvesting. Locally, good hay is at least 2 dollars a bale cheaper than poor straw.

 

[avdpas77]

I am not sure where people get biased against hay as a nestbox or warmth uses. I think it must be an "urban legend" of some sort. I read and believed the same thing when I started raising rabbits. Wheat hay IS grass hay. The stems are larger than, let's say, timothy or brome grass, but regular grass hay sticks together much better. Straw (especially on wire for warmth) will fall apart so quickly that it will be lost through the wire in no time. The argument that straw is "more absorbent" doesn't hold water.
Straw is also very "slick" and can cause young animals to "splay" limbs. Finally, what difference would it make if the straw is more absorbent than grass hay, one should never be letting wet straw or hay sit in a nestbox or cage anyway.

 

[Jessykah]

I meant generally speaking, for all farming practices, straw is more absorbent. I would never use hay to bed pigs or cows, etc. Good straw doesn't just fall apart easily. If it is left for too long laying cut in the field and has been rained on, then it starts to break easily and fall through the wire more. I use only good straw that has long stems. If a lot of straw falls through the holes of your nestbox, there is something wrong with the nestbox. Enough good quality straw stays in nestboxes to do the job. As the doe packs it down a bit, more is added. My litters would have froze in my climate this winter if I would have used hay. I suppose if you are in a hot climate, you may want to use hay so that they are not too hot. It doesn't get that hot here.

 

[avdpas77]

I meant generally speaking, for all farming practices, straw is more absorbent. I would never use hay to bed pigs or cows, etc. Good straw doesn't just fall apart easily. If it is left for too long laying cut in the field and has been rained on, then it starts to break easily and fall through the wire more. I use only good straw that has long stems. If a lot of straw falls through the holes of your nestbox, there is something wrong with the nestbox. Enough good quality straw stays in nestboxes to do the job. As the doe packs it down a bit, more is added. My litters would have froze in my climate this winter if I would have used hay. I suppose if you are in a hot climate, you may want to use hay so that they are not too hot. It doesn't get that hot here.

You make some good points. It is however both hotter here in the summer than where you live and colder in the winter. I am much likely to use straw in the nestboxes in the summer because it doespack down and doesn't provide as much insulation (hay tends to stay "fluffier") The comments about straw falling through the wire which I spoke of refer to people who pack their cages on bitter winter days especially those with hutches to keep their rabbits warm... I described it poorly, the comment about it falling through the wire was not meant for nestboxes. The bottoms of my nestboxes are slide out 1/4 " pegboard that has been treated with linseed oil.

If one checks back to posts in the opening year of this forum, you will see that in here in mid Missouri, the temperatures were consistently colder than those of the members in Wisconsin and Ontario. It was again true this winter, although I did not post as much and made no mention of our temperatures here. I am in no way demeaning the use of straw in nestboxes, simply saying that I find regular grass hay to work better and be more economical here. There is one more thing I might mention. From day 10 until the time the kits are regularly coming out of the box, the food they are nibbling on is the nestbox material. Grass hay is not near as nutritious as legume hay, but it has considerably more protein and other nutrients than straw. I live in a hilly-pasture area, Those who live in a grain belt are certainly going to find straw much more available and less expensive, and should use it. My comments are directed at those who were told, as I was, that straw is superior (for rabbits). If I were bedding down forage animals, I would most certainly go with straw if it were economically possible.

 

[Jessykah]

Ooohhh! Haha. I understand now what you meant by the straw falling through the wire, although wonder why people would risk rabbits urinating, etc on the bedding, then possibly ingesting it. Unless they have perfectly clean rabbits who would never do that. None of my rabbits get bedding unless they are about to kindle, for sanitary reasons. Even if it's real cold.
Some of my rabbits mess their nestboxes as soon as I put them in there. I replace the material daily until they kindle. If I put hay in, they will eat it and possibly get sick from eating hay with urine/fecal matter on it. Just like stated above. I cannot risk them getting sick. However, if I have an exceptionally clean rabbit, which I do, then I could possibly try her with a hay filled nestbox..... Maybe I will experiment.

 

[arachyd]

Mine will eat any straw I put in with them. I don't give it to them unless we get seriously cold windy weather because they'll fill up on it and not eat what's good for them. It may be because I have only been able to get oat straw here and oats are one of their favorite grains.

 

[akane]

Straw is not at all absorbent. This is a good thing. This is one of the reasons it is much less likely to mold or rot when peed on and why it stays more sanitary than hay. Whether you are using straw or hay if you are having to worry about absorbency you are not using it right. Both will insulate moisture as well as heat resulting in wetter cages or stalls than if you used no bedding at all. I always use pine pellets under straw in the chicken coop, solid bottom rabbit cages in winter, or when we had pregnant mares foaling. Shavings just can't absorb enough moisture when they aren't exposed to air for evaporation. The straw and hay keep them wet where the pelleted beddings can absorb enough moisture to offset that problem.

I haven't had any problem with straw falling through the wire and it stays much fluffier. The hay gets packed down tight against the floor or hayloft so I have to really scrape and pull individual pieces out to get the stuff loose while the straw just wipes out by the handful. Sometimes I have to take my removable cage floors (love that idea) outside to dislodge the matted down hay when they've had the stuff less than 24hours. In the nestboxes if I flip them upside down after a litter the hay will come out as one solid mass that remains in nestbox shape. The straw falls out in individual pieces that make a loose mound on the ground.

 

[KatzNetherlands]

I don't have typical cages for my bunnies(indoor cages with plastic solid bottoms), I use timothy hay for my main bedding/floor covering but my rabbits also use a litter box and so don't really urinate on their hay... I also do complete cage cleanings about every 3 days.... Our timothy hay here is very cheap and so we have an abundance of it and they like to lay in it and eat.... I like the smell as well...

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

Just to make a point.. wheat HAY is cut when its is still green and then dried, wheat STRAW is cut as the grain is being harvested AFTER the plant has turned yellow(dried).So they are defiantly two different things.Also straw is used for many things; it is not fragile as it is put on thatched roofs and to make straw brooms!!

Also WHAT part of Ontario are you comparing to Missouri? Ontario is a mighty big chunk of property, it takes about 2 days by car from Toronto to reach the western border of Manitoba, about the same it takes to drive to Florida.Although I am sorry you had to endure a winter that was below -30F we were quite fortunate enough that the entire winter was not that low..(-35C) Although the majority of Ontario is in fact sub-Artic where those temps are routine for 6 months, we are lucky to benefit from some Lake -effect moderation , although that does tend to dump a lot of snow on us instead.. I am sure that Jess out near the Ottawa valley probably had some more extreme weather than us and Maggie would experience a lot more in the way of bad ice storms, the point is, it is very impossible to make a blanket statement about the climate in Ontario, and in fact the same can be said of Miss. where the southern portion seems to be sub tropical...Also the highest and lowest temps. in Missouri were recorded in Warsaw... the lowest in 1905 at -40F and the highest at 118F in 1958 I believe, those are single temps not consistent averages!

 

[5dognightfarm]

I don't know about ya'll, but we use straw for bedding because it's only $2/bale compared to hay which ranges from $4-6.50/bale in our area (Michigan). In Wyoming you can't hardly find straw at all so hay is the only real choice.

I always felt that hay was somewhat abrasive to the baby bunnies' skin and why give them something valuable as food to use as bedding? If you give it to them as bedding they'll just eat it.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

Same here price-wise Caitlin! I guess it it depends on how much grain is grown in any given area. Once at the feedstore here they sold us oat hay which was a very sorry example of hay..but we were stuck, because during the winter our rabbits consume huge amounts of it for a heat feed, way more than summer lol

 

[MaggieJ]

why give them something valuable as food to use as bedding? If you give it to them as bedding they'll just eat it.

Caitlin, this is exactly why I like to include grass hay in the nesting materials. The kits' first solid food is grass hay that way.... The very best thing for them.

 

[5dognightfarm]

why give them something valuable as food to use as bedding? If you give it to them as bedding they'll just eat it.

Caitlin, this is exactly why I like to include grass hay in the nesting materials. The kits' first solid food is grass hay that way.... The very best thing for them.

I never thought of that!

 

[avdpas77]

Ooohhh! Haha. I understand now what you meant by the straw falling through the wire, although wonder why people would risk rabbits urinating, etc on the bedding, then possibly ingesting it. Unless they have perfectly clean rabbits who would never do that. None of my rabbits get bedding unless they are about to kindle, for sanitary reasons. Even if it's real cold.
Some of my rabbits mess their nestboxes as soon as I put them in there. I replace the material daily until they kindle. If I put hay in, they will eat it and possibly get sick from eating hay with urine/fecal matter on it. Just like stated above. I cannot risk them getting sick. However, if I have an exceptionally clean rabbit, which I do, then I could possibly try her with a hay filled nestbox..... Maybe I will experiment.

Occasionally, when we get a sudden drop in temp here, (let's say when the temp has been around 15F and we get a day or two of -5F) I will put a bunch of poor quality hay in the cage for the rabbits to bed down in. It is sort of a stop-gap measure for bitter cold, especially if if is windy also. Rabbits, will usually tear thought the hay in a day and end up dropping most of it through the floor. Since most adult does have a "pee corner" the hay seldom gets wet or soiled... If it does at these temps, it freezes pretty quickly, and still isn't much of a disease hazard.

If the bitter temps last longer than a day or two, I usually have to replace the hay anyway because it has all been lost though the bottom. If it hasn't, I remove any that is left and replace it with fresh. Rabbits can get used to cold weather fairly well, but sudden bitter temps are hard for them to overcome. I have tried to use straw in this instance, but because the farmers are cutting wheat differently to allow more to return to the soil, because it is both shorter and slick, the rabbit may have most of it lost through the floor in a few hours, which means it would be gone over night. While the hay is mostly complex carbs (know in the books as "fiber) it is not as nutritious as pellets, but it gives the rabbits extra energy... which is what they need to stay warmer. A 10% protein for a day or two is not going to hurt an adult rabbit one bit. Remember, this is an emergency thing.... like turning on ones gas cooking stove in the middle of the winter if the electricity goes out to keep the pipes from freezing. If I lived in northern Manitoba or someplace similar, I would probably devise a whole different (rabbit) housing system.