Harlequin?

[alforddm]

I know you're probably getting tired of my quest to figure out my kits colors. I understand they are probably much more exciting to me than anyone else. :lol: :lol: They were just so unexpected...I had resolved myself to all black, chestnut or steel...

Are these Harlequin? Or could it just be bruising?

The first two images are of the same kit. The third is a different kit. These are the only two that appear to have these markings.

 

[TF3]

They look like my surprise harlequins out of a supposed purebred Flemish Giant :lol:

Here they are at day one:


One at Day 10


And day 12/13:


They are definitely Harlequin (which revealed mom to be brindled, not smutty fawn).
I'm hanging on to a couple of them!

Lori

 

[Celice]

just wanted to point out that your last kit is a magpie.! very pretty colors! I'm in the middle of working with harlequin and tri for my rex.

 

[alforddm]

Celice, how can you be sure it is a magpie? That would be super cool!

It does mean that my lilac pedigreed standard rex buck has some recessives that he probably shouldn't have. If the kit is magpie that means he has a recessive at extension (either ej or e as I'm not sure which the doe has) and also a recessive at the C locus. I don't think his breeder will be very happy with that news.

 

[Dood]

Definitely harlequin and probably non extension

I agree the last one looks like a magpie (chinchilla or sable harlequin)

What colour is the doe?

 

[alforddm]

An agouti steel masquerading as black. She has a few white hairs behind her head. She is either chin and rew at the C locus or homozygous chin. Her dam is the same color and I have more of the "black eyed whites" in her litter but I didn't notice any with the harlequin markings.

How big a deal is the buck carrying these recessive(s)? I'm not upset at all but would this be a big deal? I talked to his breeder about it a bit but she isn't really up on the genetics side of things and of course wanted to blame my doe.

 

[Celice]

Celice, how can you be sure it is a magpie? That would be super cool!

the coloration. the last kit is very pinky compared to the others that look more redish.

 

[alforddm]

I actually think the first one may be torted but it will take fur to know for sure. I was planning to keep kits to breed back to the sire anyway so this is going to be super fun!

 

[Zass]

I think Celice is correct on her color guesses here too. Magpie is chinchilla harlequin.

Harlequin requires another copy of itself or non-extension to create what we would call Japanese (orange and black)or magpie(black and white) color. The doe could have the harli gene, but the buck would still need non-extension for the kits to look like this.

I think that one looks torted too, which would be a genetic self base, no surprise there.

Non extension isn't uncommon to rex...Did the breeder promise you they didn't carry recessives, and if so, did that person test breed to find out, or are they only going by pedigree information?

Most people never know ALL the recessive genes their stock carries.

At this time I know recessive rew (c) is floating around my herd, but I can only pinpoint one doe who has it, and one who was test bred with a rew v-lop and proven NOT to have it. (by having two large litters with no rew kits)

The one with rew I was able to identify only because she threw a silver tipped steel with my broken orange velveteen lop buck....There is NO chinchilla anywhere on his pedigree...but I know she doesn't have it, because I test bred her parents into the ground. Her dad had a recessive copy of rew which she must have received.

Since the last two (related) bucks I was using didn't have the gene, none of the other does threw any rew kits. So I just do not know if they have it and are passing it along or not.

In this way recessives can like hidden for generations.

(none of the 1/2 v-lop kits were ever retained or sold btw. There was NO WAY I was going to let any of those genes move outside the breed. )

 

[alforddm]

Did the breeder promise you they didn't carry recessives, and if so, did that person test breed to find out, or are they only going by pedigree information?

No, I didn't ask and I'm thrilled now to be getting these colors. I'm just concerned that other breeders might be upset if they get something popping up from her stock.

If the kit is magpie it means that the buck not only carries non-extension (probably) but also a recessive at the C locus (maybe shaded). I want to breed squirrels and chocolate chins with rex coats and love sallanders as well so it's only good news for me that he carries these but I have a feeling other breeders may feel differently.

 

[akane]

I had mini rex in chocolate and blue with 8-10 gen pedigrees of only chocolate, black, and blue thrown together in colony. I got a harlequin kit. :lol: The only one though. I'm not sure if I removed the only other rabbit with ej or e or it was just odd luck. I never count out anything after some of the stuff I got from my mini rex with long pedigrees of the same basic colors. No breeder of a breed with a variety of colors can guarantee something odd won't pop up. It's usually accepted as a risk in those breeds. It's different when your creme d'argent, a breed where only silvered red is accepted, throws a rew or my champagne d'argent with better breeding than the creme threw a chocolate. :? Chocolate is an argente color at least but argentes are separated by single colors in to individual breeds so a chocolate champagne is not a champagne. REW should never happen in argente breeds.

 

[Dood]

I'd be upset I was royally TO when a litter of 9 purebred pedigreed AmChins that already had a waiting list for the kits only had 2 that were chinchilla coloured :x

I tell buyers what colours I've gotten from the parents AND put the parents known genotype on the pedigree just to be on the safe side - so far I haven't heard of anyone getting chocolate chins but it took 4 years for it to pop up in my closed herd

Steel and harlequin often produce false black steels but if your doe hasn't produced any harlequin marked kits in prior litters it is likely the lilac buck who is the source as harlequin hides in self rabbits

 

[alforddm]

I haven't gotten any non-extension or harlequin kits at all but this is the little does first litter and her dams 4th.

__________ Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:20 pm __________

The one kit is definitely a torted harlequin. I can see the yellow and black pigment starting to come in today. Unfortunately it doesn't look like it's eating much. I took it out of the nest and stuck it in with the kits of my himi doe. She already has 10 but they all look fat and well fed. I've seen her feeding her kits several different times during the day so maybe it will make it. I really want it to make it just so that I have pictures of that color.

I also believe that y'all are right about the magpie. No sign of yellow color on that kit.

Mitka has at least one in her litter that is getting yellow hair. So, between that and the torted harlequin we know the sire has at least one full color allele. There are still a bunch of kits that look white in Mitka's and the Himi's litter. Can't wait to see what they turn out to be. <br /><br /> __________ Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:42 am __________ <br /><br /> This is one of the kits from Mitka's litter this one looks like a regular harlequin it has a small brindle looking marking on it's back. You can't see it very good in the picture. Both of the ones I took ended up slightly fuzzy.