Handfeeding 7 day old kits

[dayna]

I got some of that benebac, I was going to start that tomorrow morning.<br /><br />__________ Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:03 pm __________<br /><br />I think the runt will probably die. He latched onto the bottle just fine but each time "he" latched onto the bottle milk came out his nose. It was confusing, it didn't happen to any of the other babies.... It only happened when he latched on and drank. So I don't expect him to make it.

 

[Miss M]

I've had kits do the choking "I can't breathe thing", and they've all come through it just fine, actually, with no more treatment than wicking the formula out of their little noses. Baby bunny sneezes are funny... you don't really hear anything. They just look like they're doing the "ahhh... ahhhh....." thing, and then they flinch. And they leave a semicircle of tiny formula dots around where they sneezed! :lol:

The milk may come out of the bottle too fast for the runt to handle it. I'd recommend feeding that one slowly with an eyedropper, if you want to invest the time.

That's a great pic! Lots of nice, full tummies there! I think they'll be fine. :bouncy:

 

[dayna]

YAY! Thanks! I am so glad I found this place for advice and friendship.

 

[Miss M]

You're welcome! You've gotten them past the most fragile time. If you have them eating that well, they should continue to eat and grow.

Coffeenut mentioned putting rolled oats in the nestbox. MSD does that, too, to get them nibbling on some solids. I've never thought to do it, but I think especially for a litter like this, it could be seriously helpful.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Good point about adding stuff for them to nibble on, Miss M.

Dayna, I know you can't really get affordable hay there, but is there a way you could gather some grass and dry it as "hay" for them?

 

[dayna]

Yeah that should be no problem. They probably won't nibble till their eyes open right?

Also, the other member here in Hawaii has fed green food to her babies without any issue. You guys think it is a serious problem?

 

[Miss M]

I don't know if they nibble before they open their eyes or not. MSD might be able to answer that one.

There are a number of members who feed lots of greens. Their experience seems to be that as long as it is there from the beginning, available for them to nibble on in small amounts, they adjust to it and don't have any issues.

 

[dayna]

I went ahead and did another feeding. Some were VERY hungry! I weighed each and also wrote down the cc's I fed them.

I'm going to use this thread as a way of keeping track. I wonder how many (if any) are going to make it? From what I've read the odds are not in my favor. I have a gram scale for measuring kava but set it to oz's maybe tomorrow I'll switch it to grams.

Stripe 1.94oz fed 3.5cc
Blackie 2.67oz fed 4.5cc
#1 2.51oz fed 2cc (refused anymore)
#2 2.56oz fed 4cc
#3 2.11oz fed 2cc
#4 2.67oz fed 3cc
#5 2.20oz fed 3.5cc

Do you all think it's normal for such a vast difference in amounts fed? Some started really refusing after 2cc's even when re warmed. I didn't want them to choke.

Some gained overnight some not.

Stripe 1.98
Blackie 2.93
#1 2.64
#2 2.92
#3 2.06
#4 2.60
#5 2.37

 

[fuzzy9]

This has been an interesting read! Now I'm really pulling for these little ones, and hoping they make it!! That last pic is great!!

 

[dayna]

#3 just had a seizure. I couldn't figure out what that sound was, then I saw it seizing. It's still alive....

but I wonder, should I pts it? Should I wait and see what happens? Obviously I can't sell it and it should never be bred.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

The reason I recommended dry hay is it provides more roughage. Fresh greens will be okay too, but I would wait until they emerge from the nest to start giving that.

I'm sorry to hear #3 seized... you could try to grow it out for meat, but it might be best just to dispatch now so you can concentrate on keeping the others well cared for.

Congratulations on keeping the litter alive this long! Hand raising kits does not usually have a good outcome, so you are doing a fantastic job. :clap2:

 

[dayna]

The milk replacer I'm using is called

"Manna Pro Nurseall"

It's for Calves, Foals, Goat Kids, Lambs, Baby Pigs, Fawns, Llamas, Alpacas, Elk Calves, Puppies and Kittens. Depending on the species the dilution rate is different. I'm using slightly stroner than goat milk dilution which goat concentration is the least diluted (more powder less water).<br /><br />__________ Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:36 pm __________<br /><br />I rubbed some maple syrup on the inside of the mouth of a weak kit, and after about 20 minutes I was able to get it to nurse from the bottle.

 

[WallTenter]

What were you using before the bottle? I have a little runt that is just not doing well at all, I tried fostering him onto a heavy milking doe for a few days but her kits are so obese that he was not getting a nipple I think as he continued to go downhill... now I've brought him inside but he will not drink from either a bottle or a syringe, I am so frustrated I have to force feed this starving kit errr... The sensible part of me says just put him down but there's something about that little face. 6 days old today, the only way I'm able to get him to drink anything is to hold foster mom on her back, and basically dropper milk onto her teat (as he's not getting much from her teats when he nurses, I think she's just not dropping milk unless it's on her terms) but she is not really appreciative of having KMR all over her belly. Should I pull her kits out for a night and just leave him in the box with maybe one other?

 

[Miss M]

We recently had a little bun that appeared to have a seizure. ILoveBunnies was holding it, and whatever it started doing, it had her thinking it was seizing. She said, "Mom, look at this!" and with that, the bun went limp and draped itself over her hand. It has its pic in the "Dead Bunny Thread". After about 5 minutes, it woke up from its power nap like nothing happened.

Hopefully, you were just witnessing a pre-power-nap routine? I hope?

I would up the concentration to twice the concentration for goats. Seriously, the formula I used was 1/2 Cup evaporated (double strength) goat's milk, 1 egg yolk, and 1/2 Tablespoon corn syrup. Rabbit milk is very rich stuff. Since the babies get fed just a small amount, twice a day at most, they pack a lot of nutrition into that milk!

The formula probably already has a little sugar in it, but you could probably add egg yolk too, if you wanted.

I did not keep the mixture more than 2 - 3 days in the fridge.<br /><br />__________ Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:49 pm __________<br /><br />

What were you using before the bottle? I have a little runt that is just not doing well at all, I tried fostering him onto a heavy milking doe for a few days but her kits are so obese that he was not getting a nipple I think as he continued to go downhill... now I've brought him inside but he will not drink from either a bottle or a syringe, I am so frustrated I have to force feed this starving kit errr... The sensible part of me says just put him down but there's something about that little face. 6 days old today, the only way I'm able to get him to drink anything is to hold foster mom on her back, and basically dropper milk onto her teat (as he's not getting much from her teats when he nurses, I think she's just not dropping milk unless it's on her terms) but she is not really appreciative of having KMR all over her belly. Should I pull her kits out for a night and just leave him in the box with maybe one other?

If you wrap him in a rag and hold his little head, you can get an eyedropper in behind his front teeth if nothing else. Just don't give him more than a half a drop or so at a time, until he figures it out. He'll give you a fight at first, but once he realizes that weird hard thing is the Magical Food Dispenser, he should come around to using it pretty quickly.

I had to do this with a couple of little ones. One in particular. :? What a fight he put up for a few days! :roll:

You could also try your idea as well.

 

[dayna]

__________ Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:48 pm __________

ate just fine this evening... I don't really know what to think.

__________ Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:29 pm __________

Since the two had seizures, I went online to see what the common causes are in rabbits.

In young rabbits low blood sugar is a common cause of seizures. That would makes sense, as these are the two that failed to gain weight over 24 hours.

Other than feeding, any suggestions?

 

[WallTenter]

Just a touch of sugar water (concentrated) or corn syrup in the mouth should be more than enough, or you might add a tiny drop to their feed instead. There is a fine line between too little and too much - I'm talking a teeny tiny barely can see little drop. I don't know too much about bottle feeding rabbits, clearly, but I do know about bottle feeding probably hundreds of fostered kittens over the years (no I'm not crazy cat lady, I only own 3 indoor/outdoor barn kitties all are a bit overweight and very spoiled )

WELL my little baby is doing good! I took four or five kits from the foster mom leaving a few in the nest, put little tiny runt in and this morning he has a full belly! I think I'll put the other babes back in for the day and then take them out at night again.

 

[Miss M]

I'm sorry it really was seizures. But low blood sugar makes sense.

Hopefully, they'll be fine with continual good feeding. As WallTenter suggested, you might want to give them a little syrup a few times a day just to keep their levels up while they stabilize. That sounds like a good idea.

 

[dayna]

One that seized yesterday is fine today, drank a nice big bottle and is happily sleeping. The two brown ones look like they are just not going to make

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

Now I've got three seizing. I just am unsure what to do next. Maybe PTS them? One that seized yesterday is fine today, drank a nice big bottle and is happily sleeping. The two brown ones look like they are just not going to make it.

Should I even try a pairing again between these two rabbits or should I sell this doe?

It is up to you, ultimately. Was this her first litter? My one doe tried really hard to mother her kits, she seemed like she would be a GREAT mom...but her milk never came in. I didn't have as much success as you have had bottle feeding the kits...I don't know the cause of the seizures but it may be from some kind of reaction to the formula. I'd watch the survivors once they are weaned and on solid food, if they continue to seize it may be genetic and I would cull. If it stops, then it may be the formula. They could even be a little damaged neurologically from the stint between mom abandoning them and you taking over...babies are so delicate.

If it was her first litter, I'd try again. But again, it is up to you and if you decide to cull her, I can totally understand that, too.

 

[Miss M]

I agree with everything Kyle said.

It's so hard to know what brought the seizures on. If it's just the period of no food they went through, then it may never happen again. You won't know unless you give her another shot.

As for the kits, since you are the one who can watch them and see what sort and duration of distress they are experiencing, it's really your call. I might try to give them until tomorrow for their systems to even out before making a decision.

And you might want to try a different formula.