Halp! Do I have snuffles?

[FajerFarm]

My rabbits are slowly dying one by one. Could it be Pastuerella? I looked at some pictures online, and Pastuerella seems to cause a lot more mucus. I haven't seen that much mucus coming out of my rabbits. Here are the symptoms.

The rabbits appear completely fine until one day I notice that one's not as alert and vibrant as it should be. It is usually just sitting in one spot. It will sit in that same spot, or move 4-5 feet away and then die within 2 days.

No signs of predation, but one did have either an abcess or an injury on it's side, that I assumed was from territorial disputes between the rabbits. They have plenty of shade, water, and I give them frozen bottles of water at about 11:00 am on days when the heat index gets over 95 degrees farenheit.

What do you guys think? Is it snuffles? Something else?

Thank you for any input!

 

[ladysown]

they are either eating something they aught not be eating - they look like they have tummy aches or something really not quite right with them. Have you searched for toxins in their environment?

 

[FajerFarm]

they are either eating something they aught not be eating - they look like they have tummy aches or something really not quite right with them. Have you searched for toxins in their environment?

No! I have not! They definitely free range, so that is something that I haven't thought about.

I guess I naively figured that bunnies will not eat things that are detrimental to their health. /facepalm

How can I figure out which plants are toxic to rabbits?

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

awww, they do not look well at all.. I would put them in a cage and start giving oats and vitamins in there water for a start.
That rabbit looks slim to me or it is old.
How it is poop? Are they drinking at all?.
this could be a number of things.. when you free range and is so hard to know

 

[Marinea]

So sorry you're going through this.

Take a look at the Natural Feeding forum. There is a sticky post there with a list of plants safe for buns.

*fingers crossed you find the cause soon*

 

[FajerFarm]

awww, they do not look well at all.. I would put them in a cage and start giving oats and vitamins in there water for a start.
That rabbit looks slim to me or it is old.
How it is poop? Are they drinking at all?.
this could be a number of things.. when you free range and is so hard to know

They're not sneezing. As far as I can tell they've stopped drinking and their poop is fine. It's hard to be able to gauge because they are only free range during the spring/summer/fall months.

All of my rabbits are that slim. I suspect as a result of true free ranging.

So you guys don't think it's snuffles? That's what I was most worried about.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

You have to get fluids into them .. Even by syringe. Or they will die for sure.

 

[Peach]

Hope we can offer enough advice to get these rabbits back on their feet.

These rabbits have very poor flesh and condition. I'd get them in wire cages. I would try not only hydrating them, but worming them as well to get that out of the way. I would recommend some safegaurd horse paste. Fenbendazole treats wonderfully. I only give each rabbit a small dabb. The difference between Fenbendazole and Ivermectin, is that it treats things like pinworms,etc that Ivermect can miss if it's in the adult stage and it is easier on rabbit system. They also found that animals can handle over amounts just fine without adverse effects.

Poor buns! Hope they are feeling better soon!

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

:yeahthat: I agree ..

 

[LauraNJ]

The rabbit almost looks wet under it's chin, is it? If it is then it could be overheated, they will drool a little. When a rabbit gets overheated they will often stay in the sun and not drink or eat.

Feel their ears. If they are hot then they need to be taken to the shade, possibly dunked in water or at least take a cold washcloth and wipe down their ears.

During the heat I mix up gallon jugs of water with vitamin/electrolyte in it. I buy the little bottles of vitamins in the chicken section of tractor supply. It seems to really help them deal with the heat.

I give frozen ice bottles or giant ice cubes if it is over 82F or so.

I think I would move them to cages temporarily. That way you can monitor each one, keep track of how much they are drinking and eating. That would also give you time to seach the areas for toxic weeds.

Is that a beveren? I think I see blue eyes and with the longer coat, non commercial type body. My beverens last year were very sensitive to the heat.

They are doing better this year but I have one who is currently molting and I am giving him frozen ice cubes (I freeze water in the disposable containers then pop them out) when it hits 80, sometimes upper 70s. I have also been doing a quick brush to help get out the dead fur which he seems to appreciate.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I agree that you need to get them into cages for a while so you can monitor them, and worming is a good idea as well.

I see some crust around the nostrils, but it seems to be mixed with dirt. There is the possibility that it is Pasteurella (snuffles). I would clean the nostrils of each rabbit before putting them in cages so you can see if it reappears. You need to also check the inner surface of their front legs. If the same crusty dirt is there, they have likely been wiping their snotty noses with their paws.

If it isn't Pasteurella, then their pasture may be inadequate. The fur condition and body mass are very poor. I would offer them some alfalfa hay and grains. Oats, barley, and BOSS (Black Oil Sunflower Seeds) are all good choices. They also enjoy dried peas. My rabbits are fed about 2/3rds cup of grains and hay and/or a small amount of weeds daily.

This site lists the noxious and invasive weeds of Arkansas:

http://plants.usda.gov/java/noxious?rpt ... atefips=05

Double click on the plant name, and a page showing images of the plant, seeds, and information on growth habits and distribution will appear.

If you are still uncertain of what you have, take some good pictures of your pasture and the specific plant varieties there. Post the pictures in the Natural Feeding Forum titled "Weed ID Please" (or something similar), and people will try to help you determine what they are.

If you wish to continue raising your rabbits primarily or exclusively on pasture, I would suggest looking at the "Safe Plants" sticky, and choosing some of the plants to seed your pasture with. It could be that the nutrients available are not enough. Red or white clover are good forages. I bought a good sized canister of White Clover at Home Depot- that would be a quick and easy start for you.

Good luck! :clover:

Please keep us updated on their progress.

 

[Miss M]

I'm no expert, but just on what you've said and the pictures, my guess would be not snuffles. Don't take that as gospel.

Unfortunately, domesticated rabbits don't seem to have as much of a sense of what they can and cannot safely eat. The only way to really safely pasture them is to eradicate unsafe plants from their pasturing area.

In the last picture, the majority of the grass should be safe, but there are some other plants in there. I don't know what they all are. In the last picture, the long grass in the bottom left corner may be some sort of "monkey grass" or leriope. If I remember correctly, this can be mildly toxic. The leafed plant right in front of the bunny in that last picture looks like some of the wild members of the nightshade family I have growing around here. They vary widely in toxicity. I'm not saying it is a nightshade, only that it looks similar to the ones I have.

I agree with the others... you need to remove them from the pasture to cages or whatever you can do. Get some fluids, preferably with electrolytes, in them. Some Gatorade or Pedialyte... even diluted tea would be helpful. Syringe the fluids in the back of the mouth, inserting the syringe from the side.

Offer no pellets for now. It would be good to lightly coat oats with blackstrap molasses, which is packed with nutrients, and helps tempt them to eat.

:clover: I sure hope the rest will recover!

 

[FajerFarm]

Thanks so much for the help, everybody!

I lost one of my main bucks this morning. I have necropsy photos. Are they okay to post here?

 

[MaggieJ]

Yes, you can post necropsy pictures here, but please include the words necropsy and graphic in the title so people know in advance what they will be seeing.

You have been given a lot of good suggestions. I have one to add. Give them a trace mineral salt block. Rabbits not getting pellets need salt and may be deficient in trace minerals as well. I remember one member was losing rabbits until she gave them a trace mineral salt block. I use the reddish brown ones for general livestock. If you can't get to a feed store to get one right away, at least make salt available to them. You can soak some safe twigs in a supersaturated solution of salt and give them those to nibble. Even something like a salted pretzel of two would work in the short term.

trinity-oaks-grain-feed-mix-t6809.html?hilit=trace%20mineral%20salt

 

[FajerFarm]

Thanks for all the good advice so far! I've got the remaining rabbits access to salt and frozen 2 liter bottles.

Found one of my main bucks dead this morning. He didn't appear to have any snot running down his nose, but he was bleeding from his nose. He bled more-so when I moved him. He didn't have any signs of predation or lesions. He appeared to have a hotspot under his neck. He had no diarrhea. He had plenty of fat on him when I killed him, but he also had a lot of dried crusty stuff in his ears (Mites? Mineral oil?).

I've not necropsied any of my rabbits before, so I don't know what "normal" looks like. Maybe one of you gals can chime in on that. I've seen chicken and goat lungs, however, and they were puffy, pink, and spongy. This rabbit's lungs looked mucousy, not spongy, and peppered with dark spots. Some kind of respiratory infection looks like the main culprit to me, but, again, I'm not the expert.

The heart and liver looked okay to me, but, again, I'm not sure what "normal" is for a rabbit.

So, here are the necropsy pictures. What do you guys think?

Thanks again for any input!

 

[MaggieJ]

I can tell the organs apart easily when I open a rabbit up myself, but once they are removed and photographed I have more problems.

In the last picture, there are two masses. If the lower one is the liver, it appears to have light coloured nodules embedded in it. Usually this means coccidiosis. However, there is also an almost black mass just above it... so perhaps that is the liver. Still does not look normal.

This rabbit definitely had a bad case of ear mites, but that wouldn't kill him. From your description of the lungs and the bleeding from the nose, I would say likely a respiratory infection and possible heat distress as well.

I strongly suggest getting them into cages immediately. In the summer heat, especially, it is easy for free-range rabbits to get parasites of many types. Hope you can sort this out in time to save the rest.