Getting Started

[CarsLops]

I've recently decided that I want to be as done as possible with commercial feeds for my animals. Between dog food and rabbit feed, there have too many recalls and reports of animals getting sick or dying. I spent yesterday reading through the this section of the forum, but I still have some questions.

1. I raise rabbits solely for show. Does anyone here feed natural to their show rabbits? How do they compare to commercial fed rabbits? If I'm not going to be able to keep my animals in show condition, then I really can't justify doing this. The lines I have are already fairly slow growers, so I'm not too concerned about that.

2. I currently feed measured Show Rite pellets (17% protein, 3% fat) and in the morning they get a tablespoon (more or less depending on age, condition, weather, etc.) of a flax seed, wheat germ, oat, and BOSS mix as a conditioning feed/treat in a separate bowl than the j-feeders. If I switch, I'm thinking of doing unlimited alfalfa hay or cubes, constant access to mineral block, and then a measured amount of:
10 parts oats, barley, or wheat, depending on what I can get from my feed store (I can for sure get oats)
1 part BOSS (should this be 2 parts instead?)
.5 part flax seed
.5 part wheat germ
According to information from a link I found on here, I calculated that the protein will be about 13.5%, but they'll get protein from the alfalfa, too. I figure that I'll keep the flax and wheat germ separate from the BOSS and oats and feed it in the small crocks I use for the conditioning mix now, as it will fall through my sift-o-matic feeders. I don't think that the flax and wheat germ are necessary for health, but I'm trying to keep everyone in show condition.

3. I've never used a feed without yucca, which is supposed to keep the urine smell down. Did you notice an increase in urine smell when you switched to natural? Can I find another way to give this to them? I use about a tablespoon/gallon of apple cider vinegar in their water currently, if I used it to 2 tablespoons/gallon, would that make up for the missed yucca?

4. This may not be the place to ask this, but has anyone tried feeding what they make for their rabbits to ducks? I'd like to have them off commercial pellets as much as possible. Could I add/take out something from this mix to make it appropriate for ducks? Could I at least make this half their diet mixed with commercial pellets? I only have two now and, as much as I didn't want it to happen, they've kind of reached pet status, so besides the hen laying a few times a week, they're not under the stress of show or production animals. They currently get Dumor layer pellets, access to oyster shells, kitchen scraps, and they can free range the yard for at least a little every day. I looked at the ingredients of the pellets that I'm currently using and the ingredients are wheat middlings, corn distillers dried grains with solubles, corn, soybean meal, and then the vitamins, minerals, and preservatives, so maybe if I added a poultry vitamin, it would work. It doesn't seem like a very complicated feed.

Thank you in advance for your help and I apologize for the long post, but I'd like to be able to wean off of commercial animal feeds and I feel that this is the best place to learn

 

[akane]

Oats and boss will be a very fatty, high calorie mixture. Oats have the highest fat content of any grain and boss isn't even comparable to grain it's so far up there. Unless you keep the amount very small you will have fat rabbits. Rabbits don't show fat like most animals. They pack it in around their abdomen causing reproductive issues. It's not until you give up trying to breed them and decide to butcher them that you find out the problem. Once they start showing fat around the shoulders and hindquarters it's pretty much a lost cause trying to get them back in to shape for easy breeding and normal sized litters.

 

[CarsLops]

Thanks for your input! Do you know where I can find a list of fat percentages in different animal feed ingredients? I found one with the protein percentage, but I can't find fat.

Should I cut out the BOSS then? Or maybe try for wheat or barley instead of oats? I'm going to call my feed store Monday to find out what they can get.

 

[Frecs]

I've recently decided that I want to be as done as possible with commercial feeds for my animals. Between dog food and rabbit feed, there have too many recalls and reports of animals getting sick or dying. I spent yesterday reading through the this section of the forum, but I still have some questions.

1. I raise rabbits solely for show. Does anyone here feed natural to their show rabbits? How do they compare to commercial fed rabbits? If I'm not going to be able to keep my animals in show condition, then I really can't justify doing this. The lines I have are already fairly slow growers, so I'm not too concerned about that.

I raise for meat so I can't give you first hand but I don't see why you shouldn't be able to keep your rabbits in show condition without pellets. They showed rabbits long before pellets came available and there isn't anything (healthy) in pellets that you can't provide without pellets.

2. I currently feed measured Show Rite pellets (17% protein, 3% fat) and in the morning they get a tablespoon (more or less depending on age, condition, weather, etc.) of a flax seed, wheat germ, oat, and BOSS mix as a conditioning feed/treat in a separate bowl than the j-feeders. If I switch, I'm thinking of doing unlimited alfalfa hay or cubes, constant access to mineral block, and then a measured amount of:
10 parts oats, barley, or wheat, depending on what I can get from my feed store (I can for sure get oats)
1 part BOSS (should this be 2 parts instead?)
.5 part flax seed
.5 part wheat germ
According to information from a link I found on here, I calculated that the protein will be about 13.5%, but they'll get protein from the alfalfa, too. I figure that I'll keep the flax and wheat germ separate from the BOSS and oats and feed it in the small crocks I use for the conditioning mix now, as it will fall through my sift-o-matic feeders. I don't think that the flax and wheat germ are necessary for health, but I'm trying to keep everyone in show condition.

I do a mix of 1 parts oats, 1 part wheat, .5 part BOSS, and a dusting of flaxseed. I *sprout* this for 4 days which lowers the fat/carbs and ups the protein. As best as I can calculate, this mix is about 17% protein. If you can harvest willow and/or mulberry leaves, you have good protein sources to up that even more.

I've been reading up on Wheat Germ Oil which is the "active" ingredient in OxyGen. It has a chemical called Octacosanol which is said to help with oxygen metabolism, muscle development, coat appearance, and overall size. You might what to either keep the wheat germ or switch to wheat germ oil. I've not figured out a way to feed the oil that would be palatable as I read that the oil tastes rather nasty. So, the wheat germ might be easier. How do you give the wheat germ to your rabbits that they eat?

3. I've never used a feed without yucca, which is supposed to keep the urine smell down. Did you notice an increase in urine smell when you switched to natural? Can I find another way to give this to them? I use about a tablespoon/gallon of apple cider vinegar in their water currently, if I used it to 2 tablespoons/gallon, would that make up for the missed yucca?

from my understanding, yes.

4. This may not be the place to ask this, but has anyone tried feeding what they make for their rabbits to ducks? I'd like to have them off commercial pellets as much as possible. Could I add/take out something from this mix to make it appropriate for ducks? Could I at least make this half their diet mixed with commercial pellets? I only have two now and, as much as I didn't want it to happen, they've kind of reached pet status, so besides the hen laying a few times a week, they're not under the stress of show or production animals. They currently get Dumor layer pellets, access to oyster shells, kitchen scraps, and they can free range the yard for at least a little every day. I looked at the ingredients of the pellets that I'm currently using and the ingredients are wheat middlings, corn distillers dried grains with solubles, corn, soybean meal, and then the vitamins, minerals, and preservatives, so maybe if I added a poultry vitamin, it would work. It doesn't seem like a very complicated feed.

Thank you in advance for your help and I apologize for the long post, but I'd like to be able to wean off of commercial animal feeds and I feel that this is the best place to learn

My ducks and chickens happily eat the rabbit leftovers. I don't buy poultry feed (except on very rare occasions and then I am reminded that they turn their beaks up to it!).

 

[CarsLops]

Frecs, thanks for sharing! I'm glad to hear that you keep your poultry without commercial feed. Mine don't seem wild about it, so I figured they'd be happy with whatever.

I'm looking into sprouting, but I have a lot of trouble with plants, so we'll see. I have mulberry trees and I love willow, so now I have excuse to plant some :lol:

How do you give the wheat germ to your rabbits that they eat?

I give mine a mix of oats, BOSS, flax seed, and wheat germ as a supplement in a small crock every morning. They get their pellets at night. I think what they really want is the oats and BOSS, but they eat the wheat germ while they're at it.