General question about rabbit breeds

[ckcs]

When I look over the ARBA list of 47 breeds I am confused about a few things. Part of my confusion might be with what I think a breed is. I think of it as a specific rabbit body type or a specific fur type. Basically if color is the only difference between two rabbits, my thinking is they are the same breed. Am I wrong?

1. Harlequin - Is this both a type of rabbit and also a pattern of color? If so what would a non harlequin harleguin be called?

2. Are Creme D'argent and Champagne D'argent the same type of rabbit, just different color? If so why is there a max weight difference.

3. Are Americans and American Chinchillas both Americans ?

I have a lot of questions along those lines but maybe those will be enough.

 

[Secuono]

Yea, it's a little weird to me that there are 47 of them.
A breed will breed true, one of the things that makes it a breed and not w/e.
The Chins come in standard, giant and american, those are similar/bred from one of those breeds and added others to make them, I think. But an American would be something different.
I thought the d'argents are the same, no idea if its true or not, probably just different colors bred separate for so long to get the color to stick/breed true, and then became its own breed?

It's weird, with dogs, its real obvious, but hard to call rabbits different other than split by, type, size and true bred colors. I really hate how the same color is called X in one breed and then called Y in another, hate that! It's stupid, its the same color, darn it!
Harlequin is both a breed and color, not sure a harly breed can be non-harly color, or is that then jap and magpie...??

This is making me add Qs to your list! lol sorry

 

[Whipple]

Harlequins have to be harlequin or magpie. Its recessive so you won't have a pure that is not
As to the rest, they're separate because someone wanted them to be lol. That's about the biggest reason why there are so many that look the same but are different.

 

[ladysown]

i raise harlequin rabbits (the breed). They come in magpie or japanese base colours. Even crossed with another breed the harlequin patterning tends to win out (though not always particularly if bred tort or solid red).

BUT I have had some born from a harlequin to harlequin crossing that were very black with just a wee touch of banding on the feet. Go figure. Those ones make for decent eating... so I suppose you'd call a non-harlequined harlequin...food.

I also raise tricolour holland lops in which harlequin patterned rabbits are helpful to use. There are also available in japanese or magpie.

the whole type/colour thing with the d'argents i haven't a clue but I think is mostly based on regional differences.

 

[Dood]

The Standard of Perfection is open to interpretation and and cross breeding to introduce a colour or improve body or fur type happens alot. Rabbits dont need a pedigree to show, only to be registed with ARBA and then you only need 3 generations and rabbits breed like rabbits, so that can be acheived in a couple years.

There are 5 body types so basically for some breeds colour is the main difference (ie: AmChin, Palamino, American Sable, Cinnamon) and sometimes there is very little difference or only a weight difference (ie: American, Holland vs Mini Lop, the 3 chinchillas mentioned before)

1. Harlequin - Is this both a type of rabbit and also a pattern of color? If so what would a non harlequin harleguin be called?

It was a breed first and they were crossed with others to introduce the Japanese harlequin colour gene ("ej")to other breeds.

2. Are Creme D'argent and Champagne D'argent the same type of rabbit, just different color? If so why is there a max weight difference.

They are considered different breeds and should not be crossed.

3. Are Americans and American Chinchillas both Americans ?

They are two seperste breeds. Americans have a mandolin body type and only come in blue and white.AmChins come in chinchilla and have a commercial body type.

 

[skysthelimit]

Y I really hate how the same color is called X in one breed and then called Y in another, hate that! It's stupid, its the same color, darn it!

This is my biggest pet peeve. But really it's mostly Rex and Mini Rex for the most part, and that is because some of the colors look completely different in those two breeds than the others. Chestnut does not look at all like Castor Rex fur. Someone on another list said otter is not a tan-" well, actually it is the tan gene. Having different names do not foster an understanding of color genetics. Also, not colors that don't exist in all breeds. There are 16 varieties in Rex, but 32? in Jersey Wooly. I find that I can now make color crosses I wouldn't dare in Rex with the Woolies.

 

[phillinley]

2. Are Creme D'argente and Champagne D'argente the same type of rabbit, just different color? If so why is there a max weight difference.

The argente means silver in French and the Champagne (and St Hubert) part denotes what part of France they originated from. They are both slightly different in body type and then obviously the silvering in coloring. But there are more Argente breeds that aren't recognized in the US: Argente Brun (which is going to have a COD very soon), Argente Bleu, Argente Clair, Argente Noir and Argente St Hubert (which if I was ever to import a breed, St Hubert would be the one).

St Hubert:

The Argente's (this is a Swiss club image they don't recognize Hubert or Clair. Also, not sure what the Havanes are.)

 

[Ivory]

Harlequins have to be harlequin or magpie. Its recessive so you won't have a pure that is not
As to the rest, they're separate because someone wanted them to be lol. That's about the biggest reason why there are so many that look the same but are different.

Are you sure about that?

I had a flemish giant (purebred, non pedigreed) pair that spawned a perfect Harlequin last year, I had a friend have exactly the same thing happen the year before. I just assumed that somewhere in their past these rabbits had been crossed with halequins. As we are both meat breeders it really made no difference except as a point of interest.

Then I saw an ad for pedigreed FG babies, some of these babies were definitely Harlequin. I wrote to the breeder and challenged her claim that these rabbits were from purebred stock. She emailed me back and politely, but firmly assured me that Harlequin was a recognised FG colour.

I say she was talking BS just to sell her rabbits but she was adamant she was right.

 

[ladysown]

but firmly assured me that Harlequin was a recognised FG colour.

as per ARBA standard colour is black, blue, fawn, light grey, sandy and steel grey. No harlequin in there.

 

[Dood]

Then I saw an ad for pedigreed FG babies, some of these babies were definitely Harlequin. I wrote to the breeder and challenged her claim that these rabbits were from purebred stock

After 3 generations of breeding to the Flemish SOP they could look exactly like Flemmies and be shown and registered as purebred Flemmish Giants, IF Harlequin was a recognized colour - which it is not

 

[phillinley]

After 3 generations of breeding to the Flemish SOP they could look exactly like Flemmies and be shown and registered, IF Harlequin was a recognized colour - which it is not

Trying to put a new variety into the Flemish breed would be quite a battle with the membership. I wouldn't blame them either given how much work for so long has been put into some of those varieties.

We were very careful picking out our blacks and blues. They take so long to grow to senior weight and cost so much in feed I don't want to be having any surprises in the nest box from a breeder who felt like screwing around with crosses.