General Lionhead Question

[Desert Rose Rabbits]

Are they considered a true dwarf? I know that they contain dwarf genetics (pretty sure, please correct me if I'm wrong), but beyond that... :shrug:

 

[Bad Habit]

as I understand it, a true dwarf is any rabbit with the dwarf gene

 

[siddsaysgimmie]

A true dwarf is a rabbit with the dwarf gene. False dwarf is a rabbit without it. Even in a "dwarf" breed like Hollands or Netherland Dwarf you will get both. I believe that Lionhead is a dwarf breed.

 

[Dood]

:yeahthat: but unlike in Hollands and Netherlands, false dwarf Lion heads (and mini rex and mini Satins and polish, etc...) can still win

In the afore mentioned breeds pretty much only the rabbits that have a dwarf gene have any chance of doing well on the show table.

 

[Bill]

The Standard for Lionheads calls for not over 3 3/4 pounds......

 

[Bad Habit]

I've had false dwarf lionheads under 3 3/4 lbs.

 

[Desert Rose Rabbits]

So, the only way of really knowing unless you have a pedigreed rabbit that's traced back for forever, is to breed and if any peanuts show up you have a 'dwarf' rabbit?

 

[MamaSheepdog]

So, the only way of really knowing unless you have a pedigreed rabbit that's traced back for forever, is to breed and if any peanuts show up you have a 'dwarf' rabbit?

Actually, I believe you need TWO dwarf rabbits. The kits that inherit a dwarf gene from both parents are peanuts.

 

[Bad Habit]

So, the only way of really knowing unless you have a pedigreed rabbit that's traced back for forever, is to breed and if any peanuts show up you have a 'dwarf' rabbit?

Actually, I believe you need TWO dwarf rabbits. The kits that inherit a dwarf gene from both parents are peanuts.

:yeahthat:

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Thank you for confirming that, Bad Habit!

 

[Desert Rose Rabbits]

Yeah... just realized I wasn't clear... She'll only be bred to another lionhead, so I didn't think to mention it. Too much stuff smooshed inside m'head!

Edited to add: However, if the buck she's bred to doesn't carry it then it won't show up. So, I guess my question is what is a purebred Lionhead? Do purebred rabbits/lionheads even exist? If there are such things as purebred lionheads, what are they considered? Mini's or dwarf or its own thing? Does any of that make sense, I'm very overtired.

 

[Dood]

Rabbits are categorized by their looks and not so much on parents. So if a bun looks like a Lionhead then it is called a Lionhead BUT that doesn't mean it will breed true in the next generation and many people get surprises in the nest box from their lovely and supposedly 'purebred' rabbits when they start producing litters , myself included :x

To be registered with the ARBA a rabbit is considered 'purebred' if its parents, grand parents and great grand parents (3 generations) were all the same breed.

 

[Bad Habit]

Lionheads are a really tricky breed as well. You'll want to start out with GOOD stock - I found the hard way that it is really hard to take a mediocre mane and breed it up. Spend the money and get good manes to start out with. A good breeder will be able to tell you if there is dwarf in the line or not, and some can make an educated guess as to which rabbits in a litter are most likely to be a true dwarf.

I believe lionheads are classified as a dwarf fancy breed... Or rather, will be, if they get their final pass this Oct!!

 

[Desert Rose Rabbits]

Rabbits are categorized by their looks and not so much on parents. So if a bun looks like a Lionhead then it is called a Lionhead BUT that doesn't mean it will breed true in the next generation and many people get surprises in the nest box from their lovely and supposedly 'purebred' rabbits when they start producing litters , myself included :x

To be registered with the ARBA a rabbit is considered 'purebred' if its parents, grand parents and great grand parents (3 generations) were all the same breed.

Wow, no wonder rabbit genetics are so wonky and all over the place!

Just out of curiosity on the registering thing. Do all three prior generations need to be registered, or do they just take your word for it? How do people without access to non-pedigreed/non-registered rabbits end up with registerable stock? Do they just have to suck it up and search far and wide for something that's already registered? Is the pedigree you get from the breeder enough?

Say, I breed my Satin buck to my Cali/Chin do. Their offpsring would (very general math/numbers here) would be 50% Satin, 25% Cali, 25% Chin genetically. If I were to take a doe from that litter and breed back to my Satin buck I would get offspring that were 75% Satin and the remaining 25% would be split between the chin/cali genes. Would the kits that resulted from that pairing be the generation that actually started the registerable satin line since they are roughly 75% satin? They would essentially be the great grandparents, right? As long as I continued with the linebreeding back to their satin dad, or bred a doe or buck from that line to another Satin the mixed genes would be negligable so they would, by genetic majority, be considered pure?

Eeegads! Does that make any sense?

 

[Dood]

Pedigrees are just a list of the rabbits ancestors and they are based on the honor system, unfortunately not all breeders are honorable ! ARBA requires a proper 3 generation pedigree and all the ancestors must be listed as the same breed. If you want to list your 75% Satins as 'Satins' then there is not much anyone can do about it.

I don't know what percentage a rabbit needs to be categorized as a breed.

In my case my breed is only supposed to come in two colours - chinchilla and squirrel - but my purebred doe has A LOT of hidden recessives that I cannot chalk it up to a coincidence. Her breeder must have crossed in other breeds or at the very least gotten many un-showable colours in their litters and were aware of theses recessive but chose not to disclose it to me.