Game Plan for First Kits

[macksmom98]

If you are following my posts you will already know our situation. We are first time breeders and our Doe will be a first time mom. I understand many Does loose some or all of their first litter. We are prepared for this I happen, but of course would love to help if we can. I have my rabbits outside, and the cages of our Doe and Buck are right across from each other. I have heard people say not to let the Doe see the Buck (or she might kill the babies) I have also heard others say to leave them all alone the first week. But then many people say to check them several times a day. To some extent nature will take its course. But I'm wondering what ya all do with first timers or in general to make the situation as ideal as possible? Could have some on about 10 or so days but more likely in about a month....thanks!

Also-she has a nest but it's been there a while and at first she seemed confused about her litter pan and left poop berries in the nest. Not sure if she peed in there as well, so I need to clean it out. I am planning to save her hair and put it back as it's on top, but to replace all the hay and bedding and clean it out with Lysol or vinegar. Our nestbox is attached so I can't remove it, and I don't want her to loose all the hair she's pulled and go even more bald. Am I on the right track here?

 

[Rainey]

For shat it's worth, our does have been kept in the same small shed with the buck--never seen it be a problem. last year when we were just getting started we only checked the kits once, near 24 hours after we knew there were kits in the nest. This year, our first litter was born to a first time doe, on the wire with just a bit of pulled hair around them. So we had to take her out, gather up the kits, arrange the hay and fur in the nest box and put the kits in. Since then we've taken the whole nest box out once and checked on the kits each day with no problem.This doe is much friendlier than the ones we were breeding last year--she grew up with us. Don't know if that makes a difference.
Good luck with your first litter--keep asking questions--everyone here is very patient and you get lots of good information.

 

[Dood]

It depends on the temperament of your does.

I don't tollerate nervous, skittish or agressive rabbits so my does are all perfectly happy to let me inspect their kits, add extra straw or fur to the nest etc...

I've never heard of not putting a buck within eye sight :shock: and don't see why it would be an issue, my bucks are next to the does cages - with a 3 inch gap to prevent oops litters and I've never seen a doe get upset about the proximity :shrug:

I would not use Lysol in the nest area, and would only use a dilute vinegar solution if you think it is needed. I don't sanitize my wooden nest boxes, I just clean out the bedding and wash with soapy water between litters and I dont have any issues with nestbox eye, which I am certain is more of a genetic trait than a hygene issue

 

[macksmom98]

I will use diluted vinegar, just to be sure. I am not sure I like having the attached nestbox-seems harder to clean but if you don't worry about disinfecting it maybe it will work just fine.......I think I'll leave my set up as is and see what happens then. I am hoping the big hormone surges my Doe seems to have will be indicating she will make a good mom, but we will see. I am going to do the 24 hr wait I think too,
Unless they are born outside the nestbox. We have a wooden slotted bottom and 75 degree weather on avg in spring, so they won't be in a super cold enviornment.....I have found a lot of nice patient people on this board-which is why you see a new post from me almost every day, lol. Thanks for the encouragement fellow rabbit lovers!

 

[Zass]

I've had two high strung Silverfox (or SF cross) does attack kits when I petted them after a buck. One was culled long ago and another is on my list.

It's irrational or aggressive hormonal behavior that I don't suggest others tolerate either.

 

[macksmom98]

Zass-I would agree with that mentality, if a Doe is so aggressive and crazy she's willing to attack or kill her own kits there isn't any use for her in a breeding situation. She will likely continue the behavior or pass it down. My daughter is 9 and and very involved in this process and my biggest fear is for her to find momma chomping down on her own kit. I am a little more understanding with my gal right now since shes a first timer, and a lot of ppl seem to feel they become better the 2nd time around with some experience. With her supposed (we still aren't sure) false pregnancy she calmed right down and was really loving once the hormones left, but she had no babies or milk coming in hormones. Shes a real B**** while shes going thru the pregnancy stuff tho, so we are waiting to see what kind of mamma she will be. Her nest is lovely and she really worked hard on it (I even thought she was done but shes still pulling hair and moving things around), then when she had it the way she wanted she acted super proud and happy with herself. These guys are a trip-really have a big personality and strong instincts at least the ones in my yard <br /><br /> -- Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:09 pm -- <br /><br /> We could be on day 22 or day 3, depending on if the first breeding or second breeding took. If she does have babies I have heard there is a high percentage of first time moms who eat their young, and I have been reading up on how to prepare for that. If I see this happening, do you all suggest moving them away from her and trying to bring them back at feeding time? Or just letting nature take its course? I understand it is really difficult to hand feed a bunny, and I am not really interested in that, but just wondering if there is a way to protect them but still help mama to nurse them (assuming she would have milk coming in)?

 

[Zass]

All of my first time does have behaved exactly like experienced does.

After a few years of breeding I can still I can count lost litters on one hand. Two from does that came to me unexpectedly pregnant. They did not have nestboxes and lost kits on the wire. (I keep special nest boxes just for all quarantine does now)
And one from an experienced doe who just didn't pull fur. No idea why. She is due again in a few days. If she doesn't succeed this time, I'll cull, as I do not have the cage space to wait around for three lost litters.

 

[Dood]

I have heard there is a high percentage of first time moms who eat their young,

:shock: I don't know where your getting your statistics from but cannibalism is very, VERY rare in rabbits of any age

In my 30 plus years of raising rabbits I've never had a doe cannibalize her live kits (or even "over clean" kits and maim them) but I have had does nibble on dead ones trying to clean the nest for the survivors :shrug:

 

[macksmom98]

I have had the only 2 people I know who have been breeders(that I have spoken to about it anyway) both say they have had it happen, then when I googled it some breeders were even saying that it can be known to happen in up to 75% of first litters. I am glad that it hasn't been your experience-it's VERY good to hear! Just like anything else on the internet I had to browse several sights to see a trend then took it as more of a real possibility when I added the experience I had heard from the other 2 breeders I talked to. They all said that especially with first time moms, they may get confused with when to stop at eating the placenta and eat a kit or kits body part by accident? Or get really nervous and eat their young if they feel threatend? And that they will sometimes eat still born or dead kits to clean up and keep the nest sanitary(which is different than actually doing the killing)......anyway I hope it's not the norm, but just sort of wondered what to do if I do so it happen.....obviously the decision to rebreed that Doe will be considered later, but mostly if there is a good course of action to take to try and keep that from happening.....

 

[Zass]

Eating live kits is definitely not the norm.

 

[Susie570]

If she does have babies I have heard there is a high percentage of first time moms who eat their young, and I have been reading up on how to prepare for that. If I see this happening, do you all suggest moving them away from her and trying to bring them back at feeding time? Or just letting nature take its course? I understand it is really difficult to hand feed a bunny, and I am not really interested in that, but just wondering if there is a way to protect them but still help mama to nurse them (assuming she would have milk coming in)?

If there is ANY issue with the kits that requires removing the nest from mom's cage, you do not want to try and bottle feed the kits. That is reserved for desperate measures when no other option is available (such as the death of the mother) because it nearly always fails. Instead, the best method, IF you can't leave the kits with her, is to either only bring the nest box to the mom for feedings, once or twice a day, or if she's dangerous to the kits, you can hold the mom on your lap and let the kits nurse.

 

[macksmom98]

That's what I needed to know. She has made her nest in the correct place so I am guessing she has good instincts so far, and maybe the reports of mom eating babies were those situations where they are all still born and breeder/owners just lump it all together or something. I plan to let mom try to do her thing (even if she's not great at it the first time around I don't want to make things harder for her second litter by not allowing her the opportunity to learn)but if a situation does come up I also know I may not have a lot of time to figure out what to do

 

[Marinea]

First off, if you are anxious and stressed around the doe, it can affect her. So, calm down

The main thing you need to be aware of right now is that some first timers have their kits outside of the nest box. When the time comes (day 30 or so), start keeping an eye out. If she kindles on the wire, make sure the kits are warm and put them in the nest box. If the kits are born in the box, do check on them. Get a count, make sure all are alive, and clean out the nest if it's bloody or wet.

After that, I recommend checking the kits every day or so. Make sure they're all getting fed and look good. There are things you can do if some don't look like they're getting fed. But that's for down the road. Not something to fret over now.

Try to relax and enjoy the coming kits.

 

[Susie570]

The main thing you need to be aware of right now is that some first timers have their kits outside of the nest box. When the time comes (day 30 or so), start keeping an eye out. If she kindles on the wire, make sure the kits are warm and put them in the nest box. If the kits are born in the box, do check on them. Get a count, make sure all are alive, and clean out the nest if it's bloody or wet.

After that, I recommend checking the kits every day or so. Make sure they're all getting fed and look good. There are things you can do if some don't look like they're getting fed. But that's for down the road. Not something to fret over now.

Try to relax and enjoy the coming kits.

What she said

 

[dangerbunny]

Many first time does do great, when I have a doe due I start checking on her a couple times a day, sometimes a does behavior will give a clue to when labor will begin (not eating as much, behaving different) but sometimes you can't tell.

After she has them make sure and have a rummage through the nest, find and count all kits, remove any dead ones or afterbirth and make sure there is enough nesting materials. The mom won't abandon them if you check them, and is far more likely to abandon them if one died and is fouling up the nest. After that I check on them once or twice a day, usually just stick my hand in and make sure all are accounted for and then check a few bellies.

As to the doe eating kits, I've been breeding for 6 years and have seen does eating dead kits but never a live one. I did have one of my star mothers chew on her kits once, still no clue why, never did it before or since.

 

[macksmom98]

Guess I'll try to stay off the websites and try to just let my Doe follow her instincts. I would say I am a lot more excited and want to be really prepared over being stressed and anxious, but I definatly don't want to project that on her......thanks for all the good advice and comments!

 

[Marinea]

Nooooo, I wasn't meaning for you to "stay away". Please don't.

I just meant to try and relax, and don't try to pre-think every little possibility, because you really can't. They will find ways to surprise you. Be excited, we all still are, every time we get kits. Have fun and enjoy what comes.

 

[macksmom98]

Lol-I just meant from trying to google all the possible senerios. Don't worry-I'm not leaving RT and I will most certainly enjoy my buns and their babies. I grew up on a farm in CO and spring was all about baby animals! I love city life and going places and being on the farm, this was the high light and most fun part of living in the country. We live in a small(ish) town now on the outskirts of Corpus Christi, and are trying to give our kiddos a little practical lesson in animal care, finances, and biology (birds and the bees, lol) with these bunnies, while loving all over them