For the Wool Rabbit Breeders

Rabbit Talk  Forum

Help Support Rabbit Talk Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

GreenhornBunnyGirl

https://www.change.org/GrandRapidsRabbits
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Messages
44
Reaction score
61
Location
Grand Rapids, Michigan
So, I'm considering getting into wool rabbits. But the grooming commitment seems intimidating, and I don't even know the first thing about knitting with wool, let alone spinning it! Wool rabbit breeders of the site, I humbly come to you...with a boatload of questions!


Which of the wool breeds (English Angora, French Angora, Satin Angora, Giant Angora, and Jersey Wooley) do you love the most, and why?

What do you wish you had known about wool breeds before getting into them?

What foods/protein % do you think is the best for wool rabbits?

How successful have you been at marketing raw rabbit wool, spun rabbit wool yarn, or knitted objects?

Should I aim low and go for a smaller wooly breed to get started (Jersey Woolies)? Or would you recommend just diving in and getting a big, fluffy angora rabbit?

I've read spinning with 100% angora wool is challenging for beginners; for those into spinning, where do you source sheep wool to mix with your rabbit?

Do good show rabbits and good wool rabbits tend to be the same thing?
 
So, I'm considering getting into wool rabbits. But the grooming commitment seems intimidating, and I don't even know the first thing about knitting with wool, let alone spinning it! Wool rabbit breeders of the site, I humbly come to you...with a boatload of questions!


Which of the wool breeds (English Angora, French Angora, Satin Angora, Giant Angora, and Jersey Wooley) do you love the most, and why?

What do you wish you had known about wool breeds before getting into them?

What foods/protein % do you think is the best for wool rabbits?

How successful have you been at marketing raw rabbit wool, spun rabbit wool yarn, or knitted objects?

Should I aim low and go for a smaller wooly breed to get started (Jersey Woolies)? Or would you recommend just diving in and getting a big, fluffy angora rabbit?

I've read spinning with 100% angora wool is challenging for beginners; for those into spinning, where do you source sheep wool to mix with your rabbit?

Do good show rabbits and good wool rabbits tend to be the same thing?
Hi, it's great you're willing to ask a bunch of questions before committing. If my input brings up more questions, don't hesitate to ask.

My wooly breed of choice is satin angora. After a lot of research back when I started drew me to them. Each breed has a slightly different look and grooming requirements. All need groomed and the fur needs removed, but some need grooming almost daily, like the english (though I have heard of ones that bred some with lower maintenance), the satin and french tend to be more of a once a week or bi-weekly (as my breeding stock is getting better, I've been working toward lower maintenance as well, some of mine can go month between grooming with little to no mats). Pure line Germans tend to not need groomed at all between shearing times (which s every 90 day). I can't remember giants, I think they are similar to the Germans in grooming.
But also you have to decide if you want a rabbit that sheds its coat or does not, which requires shearing. If you don't have a preference, it's not a big deal, but if you do, make sure you ask the breeder, because some breeds, like the english, can come in both depending the genetics.
No matter which breed you choose, I recommend that once you do look up YouTube videos of grooming and collecting fiber from that specific breed, it helps give you a visual on what to expect.

I stick with lots a hay and 18% protein for mine. I am very limited in my area in the way of choices. But I have stuck with mannapro gro, as it has no corn in it oppose to my only other choice of purina professionals, which does. And I had to change to a 16% for a period of time and the coats and body conditions of the rabbits weren't great during that time.

As for marketing raw fiber, I haven't tried it yet (I hoard all of mine at the moment or pass it on to other local spinner when I want to make a tried), but I don't imagine it would be very difficult there. I have sold some yarn and crocheted products, but again, I hoard the yarn or pass it on to friend or family, and same with items I make, lol! I will eventually get better at trying to sell it.

I have no knowledge on Jersey woolies, so no input there, they are cute. But personally I'd go for angora if you want to give it a shot. Because either way, if you decide it's not for you have a couple of rabbits that you either keep as pets or you will need to rehome.

As for spinning with angora, I am the worst person to give beginner input, lol. When I decided to learn to spin I wanted to start with a drop spindle, but I refused to buy anything just incase I didn't like it. So DIYed a spindle with a chopstick, a fidget spinner (can you gues the year I started learning to spin, haha), and some tape. Then same thing applied with fiber (since I didn't have rabbits yet), my family had a box cotton for beauty use, so learned to spin with that. It is not recommended to start with cotton as it has short fibers. After that I got satin angoras and went to angora fiber, again not recommended because it's slippery. I didn't getmy first sheep based wool till like a year later, so yeah, I did everything backwards. As for where to buy wool, I usually buy mine on etsy or ravelry, also have some success locally.

Good show rabbits can be good fiber rabbits, but not all good fiber rabbits make good show rabbits.

Other side tips, wire bottom cage is a must, and don't keep 2 rabbits together, even if they are the same gender and get along. They will cause matting and may even chew off the tips of the fiber when grooming eachother.
 
I can't address any of the actual rabbit questions (yet) but for the spinning side I can help some.

I strongly suggest watching videos by Jillian Eve (Evie) https://www.youtube.com/c/JillianEve
This video shows how to make a cheap spindle (if you don't want to buy) and shows her using it some at the end.

As for buying sheep wool, there are lots of options. For blending with the angora I would suggest Marino because it's a super crimpy and very fine textured (each individual hair is very thin) wool which won't make the angora rough. For learning, I would suggest Corriedale, it's just lovely to work with, but it's a little rougher, not scratchy, but just won't go as well with the Angora. While it is EASIER to start with a beginner friendly fiber, if you don't like what you're making you won't enjoy learning, so just find something you like.

Protein Fibers | Protein Fabric & More | The Woolery a suggestion for where to get fiber. Etsy is also good but you do kind of need to know what you're looking at, The Woolery actually has customer service that can probably help and answer questions you may have. One caveat is to stay away from the Malebrigo Nube wool (it's a name brand not a breed) at least at first. Something happens to it during the dying and shipping process that makes it felt. It IS a good wool and can make very pretty things, but it does need some special treatment to make it functional and make you not want to pull your hair out the entire time you work with it.

Please feel free to ask any further questions that you have. I spin and enjoy working with angora (I don't blend mine, I just spin it pure)
 
Okay, all great questions. First, fiber. I do sell some raw fiber and yarn, but mostly I spin and knit 100% angora accessories like hats, scarves, mittens. I usually sell out of all I produce. The angora/wool blends also sell, they are less expensive and can have pretty colors, but nothing feels like pure angora. People will pick up the pretty blends, and like them. But then they pick up a pure angora item, often say it is like 'picking up a cloud', and often buy it. I don't find spinning pure angora to be any harder than pure wool or blends, it's just a little different.

Because you don't want your quality homegrown angora to be like the commercial stuff, which is spun without much twist so it still looks fluffy (but has no strength at all), you're going to want to add a bit more twist to the yarn so it is strong and can survive real use (I use angora for my barn wear). If you use the amount of tension on the spinning wheel that you use for wool, it will try to pull the fine yarn in onto the bobbin before you are ready, and the yarn may break. There's a simple solution: start treadling your wheel (not spinning at this point, don't need yarn threaded through, you're just making the treadle (foot pedal) go up and down which makes the wheel move.

Almost every type of wheel has some sort of tension devise that makes the drive band go looser or tighter, usually some type of knob. Turn the knob so the band gets looser until the part outside the bobbin with the hooks on it (called the 'flyer' because it spins rapidly 'flying' around the bobbin) stops spinning. Now, slowly add tension back onto the wheel until it just starts spinning at normal speed. This gives you the least amount of pull that will still do the job of pulling in your finished yarn onto the bobbin.

If you've never spun before, check out and see if there is a spinners guild near you. They often have spinning days or spinning classes or just a helpful member that can get you started. You can learn the basics in just a few minutes, the rest is simply practice. And don't despair if your early yarns look lumpy and bumpy. They're called 'art yarns' in the knitting/weaving world, and people pay extra for those! Spin-off Magazine (yes, there's an entire magazine devoted to spinning by Long Thread Publications, which also produces Handwoven) has a list of spinning guilds at Spinning Guilds | Spin Off

Luvin' Buns Rabbitry has a little video on spinning angora on a pencil on her Facebook page at , scroll down to December 13, 2022 to see the video. You'll find plenty of videos on YouTube to get you started spinning as well. If you are using a drop spindle for your angora, let me share a little trick I learned from an Eastern European spinner who spun all the yarn for her family. She could spin faster on a drop spindle than most of us on wheels, but she did it differently than the average spindle user. Instead of twirling the spindle and then letting it drop, suspended by the yarn, she would have a foot or two of yarn not on the spindle, give the spindle a good twirl, and let it spin. When it started to slow down (and definitely before it starts to go backwards), she would twirl it again and let it spin, maybe even a third time if the hanging string was longer. Now tuck the spindle under your non-dominant arm (I spin with my right hand, so I tuck the spindle under my left arm), and just let it sit there while you spin. You already have all the twist built up in the yarn on the spindle, so you don't need to spin your yarn with the spindle dangling. This takes the 'drop' out of drop spindle spinning. Simply hold the twist you've built up on the spindle's yarn back by pinching the yarn with your left hand, while your right hand pulls the loose fluffy angora cloud of fiber back with your right hand. Pull until the fibers near the spindle yarn are about the same size as you want your yarn to be, and then unpinch your left hand and run it up the pulled-thinner fibers. The twist will follow your hand, and magically become yarn. After a while, you'll just learn to keep your spinning hand moving faster than the twist is moving up, and not have to worry so much about the tight pinch.

If you are having trouble getting your fibers to draw out easily into a nice yarn-width, you're probably doing what I did at first. I took a speed-spinning class, and everyone was spinning away merrily, and I couldn't get my fiber to draw out. The class took a lunch break, and I kept at it, still with no luck. All of a sudden, the yarn just started flying, spinning so incredibly easy, and I had no idea why. What was the difference? When the teacher came back, she explained. Apparently, I had been letting the twist in the already-spun yarn travel up into my handful of fiber, holding it back from pulling any thinner into yarn. Once I learned to keep the twist out of my fiber supply, whether by pinching the twist off until I was ready, or simply spinning faster than the twist could travel up the yarn to my fluffy fibers, the spinning was easy.

I personally like the very soft (and personable) English angoras, although I cannot resist the satin fiber, with that sheen and color depth, and the softest of all angora fibers, so I raise them as well. My English make more fiber, but the Satin Angoras make the most amazing fiber. As to grooming, I find time and breeding selection make a huge difference. When I select bunnies for my breeding stock, I look for the ones that have nice soft coats, not hairy, but still have decent looking coats, despite being housed with mama and all of its littermates. Bunnies that start off all matted will often need a lot of grooming as adults. Bunnies that can maintain a nice soft coat despite having siblings play all over them are a treasure. Do I still get some matting on the fuzzy English cheeks or behind the front legs, yes. I wouldn't be spinning those anyway, so snipping those when necessary isn't an issue. Since I'm not showing, it doesn't matter. But, over the years, I've got a number of rabbits that go all three months between molts without needing groomed. You probably won't start out with stock that does that, and not all of my rabbits will, but you know which rabbits will become next year's breeders! Just select for the easiest keepers, and the most pleasant rabbits to work with. Rabbits that scramble and scratch may just not feel secure, you may need to change how you hold the rabbit to work. But rabbits that just don't want to be handled aren't fun to groom, they don't make it into the breeding program. Not every rabbit you begin with will be a winner, but be persistent, you'll eventually find stock that does what you want that can be a basis for your future herd.

Color is nice, but you can always overdye angora (even blacks and chestnuts, which make lovely rich deep jewel tones). Fiber quality and temperament is much more important. As has been mentioned, you need to decide whether you prefer to shear your rabbits every three months, or pluck out shedding fiber. Choose your stock accordingly. I don't like to shear, so I chose old-style molting English, which molt every 3-4 months, producing 3-6" of fiber each molt. Shearing molting rabbits can be a problem, as my English are bred to have three coats of fiber at one time, the long one molting out, another medium coat about half that length, and often a third emerging at skin level. That's great for me in a cold climate, because even the rabbit that molts out in single-digit cold weather still has several inches of the next coat grown to keep them warm. That is awful for a show rabbit, which needs to show density, and only half of the coat (or less) is full length at any given time.
 
Should have mentioned that angora, since it is spun with extra twist for strength, should always be plied (that's two strands that were spun with the twist clockwise, that get spun together counterclockwise. It loosens the twist some, which makes for a nice 'hand' (how it feels), but also gives additional strength. I've worked with angora singles, but greatly prefer the two-ply yarn.

After spending several years researching ways to raise angora, I realize there is no 'right' way to do it. Find a way that works for you. I know people who raise their angoras in a colony in an old chicken barn, even outside in a colony. Some use rabbit tractors to graze them outdoors (I didn't think it would work, but I tried it, and the test rabbits' coats were no different than their siblings in the barn.) There are people with angora house bunnies, and those who use traditional cages. Some feed 17-18% rabbit pellets, others whole grains and fresh forage. Most give some sort of grass hay to keep any ingested hair while grooming moving through the gut, but not everyone does this, either. Just figure out what you want to do, and then breed the rabbits that do well under that system. Enjoy!
 
Just 'one more thing'. . . sometimes angora yarn has a reputation for shedding fibers. I've found two potential reasons for that (there may be more). One. . .take a lock of fiber. Hold the tips in one hand, and the base end in the other hand, then gently pull your hands apart. Do the tips break off, or do the longer guard hairs simply pull out of the lock? Sometimes, the awn hairs (coarser than the underdown but thinner than the guard hairs) have a narrowing near the top of the fiber which breaks under stress. I've found this to be a genetic fault, and I test every single bunny's fiber every time I harvest wool. Any weakness is noted on the bag, and the fiber is only used for felting. It also goes on the rabbit's record, so I don't use that rabbit for breeding next time.

Another potential reason is shearing multi-coated rabbits that normally shed. When you shear the coat, it does remove the nice long 3-6" coat. But you're also shearing the shorter middle coat, and potentially even the super short base coat. These short pieces may shed out of the yarn when it fuzzes up. (Don't worry if the yarn doesn't look fuzzy after you spin and ply it, it fuzzes out when you knit/weave it.) If you want to shear your English, choose rabbits from show lines that don't shed (like the Betty Chu line of rabbits). I've tested plucked vs. sheared angora, and found that the harvesting method doesn't affect shedding of the yarn, as long as the shearer didn't leave short pieces in the fleece. What that means is. . .shear rabbits with single coats, and when you shear, don't go back and 'make neat' places that weren't cut even while you're still taking the fleece off. Make one cut and move on with the shearing. (If you don't use electric shears, try Fiskar brand scissors/shears, they hold their edge for many shearings.) After removing the good spinning fiber from the shearing table, you can go back and trim up any uneven areas or the short stuff around the head/feet/belly/tail. This will produce a nice looking rabbit, and still have exceptional fiber to spin/sell.
 
Wow! That read actually makes playing banjo seem a lot less difficult.
Actually, it's amazingly easy. . .just sounds hard when you try to plug in all the little 'tricks' that make it flow better. You can simply take the fiber the rabbit is molting, or what you've snipped off with a pair of scissors, and wrap it around a pencil, pulling it as thin as you want the yarn to be. Let the pencil lay loosely in your non-dominant hand (left for me), and let it twirl around while you wrap the yarn-to-be around the pencil. Every twirl adds another twist to the yarn. When it looks like it has enough twist and has become yarn, just hold onto the pencil and wind the new yarn up on the pencil, and start pulling thin the next piece of angora and letting the pencil again spin loose in your hand. And poof! Pretty soon you have more yarn. When you have a nice ball of yarn on the pencil (I let it sit there for a day or so to help 'set' the twist), just pull it off the pencil and put it aside until you have another ball of yarn made. Then you can do the same thing by putting the two ends of the two balls of yarn you made together, and twirling them together in the opposite direction (counterclockwise instead of clockwise). Just repeat the same way until you've plied both single yarns together into one two-ply yarn. Let it sit on the pencil for a day or so before removing--and you can go directly to weaving/crochet/knitting your yarn. If you had no knitting needles, you could even knit on a pair of pencils if you had to.

This doesn't have to be expensive, or hard. I've taught children to spin this way, it's an easy way to get started. The hardest part is remembering not to grip the pencil (or pen, or stick, or whatever you've found to use), and to let it twirl around in your hand as you wrap the angora fiber around it. You're not actually holding it tight and permanently wrapping it on at this point, you're simply adding twist, like the flyer of a spinning wheel does. As you wrap, it spins gently in your hand, and the fiber is not actually winding ON the pencil, but simply adding twist.

Drop spindles are faster than the pencil, spinning wheels are generally faster than drop spindles (but spindles are more portable). One woman in our spinner's guild made an entire shawl of pure angora, spun right from the bag as it was harvested, spun so fine the entire shawl passes through a wedding ring, out of a single ounce of angora. It was ALL spun on a drop spindle. (Actually, she added another 2/10ths of an ounce of angora to the shawl to make a border at the bottom.)
 
I've read spinning with 100% angora wool is challenging for beginners; for those into spinning, where do you source sheep wool to mix with your rabbit?
One reason to start spinning with wool, is that wool has microscopic scales that hook into each other, pulling the fibers along, which makes spinning easier. Angora scales tend to be closed, making for a silkier, smoother feel, but it doesn't pull itself as easily. Once you've mastered the feel of pulling (called 'drawing') out the fiber to the size you want the yarn to be, working with angora really isn't that much different.
 
One woman in our spinner's guild made an entire shawl of pure angora, spun right from the bag as it was harvested, spun so fine the entire shawl passes through a wedding ring, out of a single ounce of angora. It was ALL spun on a drop spindle. (Actually, she added another 2/10ths of an ounce of angora to the shawl to make a border at the bottom.)
I aspire to that level of patience. I MIGHT be able to spin that without driving myself crazy (I currently have a turkish spindle with a decent amount of pure silk thread on it right now) but the knitting or crocheting the shawl would drive me batty. I can knit socks but they have to be worsted weight, I have a pair in sock yarn that have been on the needles for 3 years now I think and they don't even cover my toes...
 
One reason to start spinning with wool, is that wool has microscopic scales that hook into each other, pulling the fibers along, which makes spinning easier. Angora scales tend to be closed, making for a silkier, smoother feel, but it doesn't pull itself as easily. Once you've mastered the feel of pulling (called 'drawing') out the fiber to the size you want the yarn to be, working with angora really isn't that much different.
Looks like I need a starter pack of fiber rabbits. If you can teach a child, then i can learn.
 
Which of the wool breeds (English Angora, French Angora, Satin Angora, Giant Angora, and Jersey Wooley) do you love the most, and why?
To decide which breed to raise, I have several suggestions:
  • Do you have any angora breeders in your area? There's no substitute for having some hands-on experience, someone who can show you how to groom and harvest the fiber sure makes things easier. Also, it's much easier to purchase stock when you have (at least fairly) local sources.
  • What kind of angora do you like? Yarn with a high spike (fuzz)? If so, you might like French best. Soft fine angora that tends to keep its softness year after year? If so, English might be your choice. Lots of fiber without needing lots of rabbits? Good Germans produce many times more fiber than the other breeds. Like the shiny look of silk? Satins might be a good choice. Looking for a very small personable bunny as a family pet? Fuzzy lops might be for you. Looking for a large rabbit with German type fiber that is showable (The German standard judges by performance, and isn't accepted by ARBA)? Try Giant Angoras. (Jersey Wooly also spins, but the rabbits don't produce as much, and they aren't bred to sit quite as well as some of the older Angora breeds, although I've had some nice ones.)
  • Do you prefer to shear your rabbits, or to pluck the molting fiber? Each method has advantages. Shearing allows you to shear on your schedule; molting rabbits shed on their own schedule, and all of them seem to shed at once in early spring, no matter what schedule they were on. German, Giant, and Betty Chu style show English all need sheared. Do not try to pluck non-shedding breeds.
  • They sell a variety of angora fiber on Etsy and eBay, you can try out several different breeds and see which one you like best. I've spun all the breeds, and love angora in any form. Of all the breeds, I found the German sheared the easiest to spin, it spun more like wool than the super fine English & Satin.
 
Last edited:
I've spun all the breeds, and love angora in any form. Of all the breeds, I found the German sheared the easiest to spin, it spun more like wool than the super fine English & Satin.
Good information to know. I just found out there is a German breeder near me. I would like to get a couple of angoras to keep for fluff and get some meat breeds as well. But that's in the spring at the soonest.
 
Wow! This is an incredible wealth of knowledge. I had no idea of the sheer scale of the yarn spinning world, this is quite a pleasant surprise! Thank you everyone!

To decide which breed to raise, I have several suggestions:
  • Do you have any angora breeders in your area? There's no substitute for having some hands-on experience, someone who can show you how to groom and harvest the fiber sure makes things easier. Also, it's much easier to purchase stock when you have (at least fairly) local sources.
  • What kind of angora do you like? Yarn with a high spike (fuzz)? If so, you might like French best. Soft fine angora that tends to keep its softness year after year? If so, English might be your choice. Lots of fiber without needing lots of rabbits? Good Germans produce many times more fiber than the other breeds. Like the shiny look of silk? Satins might be a good choice. Looking for a very small personable bunny as a family pet? Fuzzy lops might be for you. Looking for a large rabbit with German type fiber that is showable (The German standard judges by performance, and isn't accepted by ARBA)? Try Giant Angoras. (Jersey Wooly also spins, but the rabbits don't produce as much, and they aren't bred to sit quite as well as some of the older Angora breeds, although I've had some nice ones.)
  • Do you prefer to shear your rabbits, or to pluck the molting fiber? Each method has advantages. Shearing allows you to shear on your schedule; molting rabbits shed on their own schedule, and all of them seem to shed at once in early spring, no matter what schedule they were on. German, Giant, and Betty Chu style show English all need sheared. Do not try to pluck non-shedding breeds.
  • They sell a variety of angora fiber on Etsy and eBay, you can try out several different breeds and see which one you like best. I've spun all the breeds, and love angora in any form. Of all the breeds, I found the German sheared the easiest to spin, it spun more like wool than the super fine English & Satin.

I've been looking into local angora breeders and weavers, and have begun to make connections with some of them. I'll see if I can ask them for a lesson or two!

As for what kind of angora yarn I like...I must admit I'm not sure. I've never bought any since I assumed it was expensive, and I'm not very good at knitting or crocheting yet. 😅

BUT, given the information here and the suggestions I've received from some of the angora breeders I've spoken to, I'm leaning towards beginning with a Giant Angora. Though the Satin Angora's sound like they have a lovely wool, I'm only allowed to have a max number of two rabbits currently. So, a Giant Angora would provide the yield I seek and give me the opportunity to try my hand at showing rabbits as well! I've also heard that they, like many other large rabbits, have incredibly good temperaments.
 
As for spinning, it looks like I've got a bunch of options as well! I'll give the drop spindle and pencil method a go to start with, since I'm not sure I'm ready for the financial investment of a spinning wheel. But this is all really exciting! I can't wait to give it a try and report back with even more questions!!! 😁
 
Hello everyone! In addition to drafting a proposal to bring before my city's Urban Agriculture Committee to allow more than 2 domestic rabbits to be kept in a yard, I was hoping to present a petition with some signatures indicating support for the measure.

If anyone feels so inclined, I'd certainly welcome some signatures from fellow rabbit enthusiasts! 📜🪶🐇

To sign is free, and there is no fundraising goal associated with this petition. :)

If you want to sign the petition, it can be found here:
Amend Grand Rapids City Code to Allow for Rabbit Farming


(Note: If you search for my petition on Change.org it won't appear in the search results. This is because currently, it has less than 5 signatures. Once it has 5 signatures, it will become more widely available on Change.org and appear in Google search results!)
 


Write your reply...

Latest posts

Back
Top