Foodies - Kitchen from 1533 on ABC, right now

[Piper]

TV - ABC - "Time Machine Chefs" is currently cooking, in a Tudor kitchen, from 1532<br /><br />__________ Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:36 pm __________<br /><br />they are having small dogs, running in a wheel, to turn the spits, over the fire!
Other weird things lol

 

[Bad Habit]

this is soooooo cool. Going to have to stay up and watch it from start to finish on time shifting.

 

[Piper]

the peacocks head -> coming out of the lambs head
I guess they did also like knowing what the meat was -
and or, "waste not, want not"

 

[dragonladyleanne]

That was fascinating, I will have to see if the series is available on dvd or download. Not sure of the historic research though; they kept mispronouncing "cockatrice" which is a mythological beast, but also the term for the medieval origins of turduckens - it was usually small birds inside a medium bird, inside a large bird (including swan), inside a pig or goat, inside a calf. I think I read somewhere it could involve up to 17 different animals! I missed the first half of the show, though it seemed that might have been ancient China, but it may have also involved more explanation of what a medieval cockatrice was - but I doubt it. They should have had SCAdian judges, modern palates are used to way more spices than were used even in royal feasts at the time. If anyone here is realllllly interested in medieval cookery, I have several books on it, happy to share!

 

[3mina]

the peacocks head -> coming out of the lambs head
I guess they did also like knowing what the meat was -
and or, "waste not, want not"

That was so they didn't end up eating the Turnspit dogs or the stable cats.

Yes there was a breed of dog called the Turnspit and that was exactly what it did, it's been extinct for over a hundred years, when the 'modern' wood stove became popular the breed died out because it no longer had a job.

Dragonladyleanne, if you find out if it's available on DVD please share cause I'd love to have it in my library too.

 

[Piper]

I found this - it may have been a reference.
http://www.thetudorswiki.com/page/FOOD+of+the+Tudors
"Dishes on offer include frog blancmange, bone marrow rice pudding and an edible mythical monster {cockentrice) - inspired by one ordered by Henry VIII to impress the king of France - with the head of a pig, the body of a lamb and the tail-end of a goose"
"13 Cockentrice
In a lavish dinner to impress the king of France, Henry VIII spent the equivalent of £5 million on a meat feast including 2000 sheep, 1000 chickens and a dolphin. Not content with real life animals, Tudor chefs also enjoyed bolting together bits of different creatures to make a dramatic beastie they called a cockentrice

One of the more fanciful and imaginative dishes of the Middle Ages was the cockentrice, made by combining a pig and a capon into one creature, thus creating a "new" animal that would not only feed hungry folk but amuse and amaze them as well. "Cockentrice" is actually just one among many spellings of the name of this dish; originally the beast was also known as a cokagrys or cotagres, from "****" (a capon) and "grys" (a pig); a "gryse" was a suckling pig. Other period spellings include koketris, cocagres, cokyntryche, cockyntryce, and cokantrice. Cockentrice were common entries at great dinners, and a cokyntryche is listed among the many feast items at a festival given by John Stafford, Bishop of Bath & Wells, on September 16, 1425. Incidentally, the cockentrice is NOT the infamous Cockatrice, that fabulous mythical serpent that had the power to kill with a glance. Our edible cockentrice is a much safer and delicious creature.
Recipe for Cockentrice"

 

[dragonladyleanne]

an edible mythical monster {cockentrice) - inspired by one ordered by Henry VIII to impress the king of France - with the head of a pig, the body of a lamb and the tail-end of a goose" . . . a "new" animal that would not only feed hungry folk but amuse and amaze them as well. "Cockentrice" is actually just one among many spellings of the name of this dish; originally the beast was also known as a cokagrys or cotagres, from "****" (a capon) and "grys" (a pig); a "gryse" was a suckling pig. Other period spellings include koketris, cocagres, cokyntryche, cockyntryce, and cokantrice.

I researched some of this topic before getting into rabbits (I am in the SCA, and went to the British Museum, bought some of their cookbooks), and in most of the still available cookbooks from the time http://www.celtnet.org.uk/recipes/media ... i-cotagrys , it IS equated with the "monster" version - it was part of a medieval tradition to make food entertaining (remember, they had no tv, nor even "stage theatre" in most places), often by disguising one food as another, or as a mythical beast. The dishes themselves were called "subtleties" or "solteties". I was just saying that the one guy (not all of them, btw, included the "n") saying "Cockentreyes" grated on my ear. Like a photo developing video I showed my classes once where the guy kept saying "warsh" the film and photos!<br /><br />__________ Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:00 pm __________<br /><br />Oh, and the cockatrice is also a symbol of Ireland (originally meant as an insult), and appears on the stations for Bus Eireann, LOL

 

[Piper]

I guess they needed entertaining. When I took French Culture, I was amazed that the kitchens were in a far building from the Royal Court. The dinner would be paraded, through the town, all the way to the court. Can you say 'cold food', yech.
- I did not know that the "Oh, and the cockatrice is also a symbol of Ireland" - will have to research that, and put it into context. Wonder who started it the Irish or the English?

 

[dragonladyleanne]

The english started it as an insult: "An un-natural people, like the cockatrice, the offspring of a snake (satan) and a rooster" ostensibly cockatrices arose from an egg LAID by a rooster, and fostered by a snake. However, the resulting creature was mean and nearly indestructible, so the Irish took it as a symbol. I had tried to upload the metal sigil photo I had taken in Limerick, but it's in an iMovie 1 format on my old iMac. I can however upload the art I made from it and other photos. In a moment . . .<br /><br />__________ Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:02 am __________<br /><br />rargggh, I cannot upload things in their format, nor change them . . .

 

[Piper]

rargggh, I cannot upload things in their format, nor change them . .

Do you have them on a website?

 

[dragonladyleanne]

If you are on Facebook, friend me, Leanne Easteal, and you can see my interpretation of the cockatrice I saw on the Bus Eireann building, in the folder labeled "old art". Eventually, I may be able to upload it here. I wonder if I can upload the actual photo to FB?<br /><br />__________ Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:08 am __________<br /><br />I used to have them on a website, Piper, but cox cable quit sponsoring them, and my university dropped it after Ivan hit us

 

[Piper]

If you are on Facebook, friend me, Leanne Easteal,

It will not recognize me, when I click the Ad Friend button, on your page. It may be my browser, or?
You commented on my post, on "Feastie Beasties", will you try to friend me, and see if you have any problems?

 

[dragonladyleanne]

It says we clicked, if you are laura?

 

[Piper]

FB goes a bit wacky when you post urls - I found the continuation of your article. Nice!
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/grow-erm ... bit-hutch/
Going to go check out your other art work, I like what I have seen.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

One of the more fanciful and imaginative dishes of the Middle Ages was the cockentrice, made by combining a pig and a capon into one creature, thus creating a "new" animal that would not only feed hungry folk but amuse and amaze them as well.

So... how many of us have even heard of a capon? I'll admit this is only the second time I have seen it referenced in writing, and have never heard the term used verbally.

A capon is a cockerel that has been neutered at 8-10 weeks, and will then reach a slaughter weight of about 10lbs. With our modern chicken breeds that reach higher slaughter weights at a young age, caponizing has fell out of favor.

To caponize a cockerel, according to The Encyclopedia of Country Living by Carla Emery:

"Between 8-10 weeks of age, strap the bird down to a table, left side down, right side up. Pull enough feathers to expose the lower rib area. Make an incision between the last two ribs from the bird's head end. Use a spreader to hold the incision open, a hook to tear the membranes over the intestines, a blunt instrument to press the innards out of the way, and forceps to extract the testicles, which will be located one somewhat above the other just in front of the kidney and near the backbone. The testicles are white and oval in shape. A large artery runs between the two, which mustn't be punctured."

I would imagine that quite a few of the "patients" undergoing the caponizing surgery without benefit of anesthetic or antibiotics found themselves in the stew pot a bit earlier than intended... but in the days before commercial breeds came to the fore, caponizing was a way to get the most meat from one animal possible.

 

[Piper]

capon - it is suppose to decrease the hormones and make a rooster eatable. They still sell the kits and it is not suppose to be very hard to do, but they are right, you can just order some Cornish and if you watch their feed and raise them Stalon's way, with pasture pens, I do not think that it is needed. I have never done it, my extra roosters find their way to the stew pot, just fine.
-- P*** has heard of it, and since they are against any thing like that... Now I wonder why PETA supports spay and neuter programs, after all their static about caponing?<br /><br />__________ Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:07 am __________<br /><br />

So... how many of us have even heard of a capon? I'll admit this is only the second time I have seen it referenced in writing, and have never heard the term used verbally.

It was almost a year, since I last read about it. Just now checked out 'how to capon' again, and will have to take better notes with these two roosters, that are getting ready to go to fc. You may have started something, since my broodys have been hatching chicks. Be something to do with the extra roosters.

 

[MaggieJ]

The meat from a capon is also supposed to be more tender and delicious. My Dad used to say it was the only chicken worth eating.

 

[dragonladyleanne]

Wow, yeah I don't intend to get THAT medieval! My dad told me how they used to castrate hogs when he was a kid (tough rubber band where the testicles attach, let em wither off), and that's as far as I go! No cutting them up until AFTER they're dead for me!<br /><br />__________ Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:52 am __________<br /><br />"As far as I go" with rabbits, that is. I am not ever raising hogs (can't here by law, anyway), I was traumatized by an angry sow when I was 5 or 6, LOL. Doubt I will ever deal with chickens either, too noisy and too many friends have them already.