(Edit) magpie harlequin - genetics?

[Tbgb1912]

Edit: wanting to know more about the harlequin genetics



So some of you may know my doe's last litter consisted of only two kits - a blue steel and an agouti chinchilla/sable (still haven't figured out if my buck is chinchilla or sable) and now she's popped out five more kits. From what I can see, I *think* I have three agouti's - two dark, one grey - one dark steel, and a broken??

I'm really confused about the broken. I guess their genetics are full of surprises :lol:

Photos of the other kits will come, they're so squirmy it's hard to get photos of the lil buggers.

Can provide photos of the parents for those who haven't seen my buck and doe, but basically buck is a blue agouti chinchilla/(sable?) ML and doe is a seal ML x ND - carrying the steel gene

 

[Zass]

Not a broken if neither of the parents have the gene (it's always visible on anything except white rabbits.)

More likely, the mystery color is magpie harlequin.

 

[akane]

If the chinchilla is not black based it may be harder to tell but here is a sable chin on the left and a regular chin on the right

 

[Tbgb1912]

Zass - Magpie harlequin? what kind of genetics would the parents have to carry to result in offspring as such? I might have to do more genetics research now :lol:

akane: photos of buck and doe. My buck isnt black based unfortunately, but their last litter resulted in what looks like your black chin. If that helps?

 

[twr]

If I've understood your earlier posts correctly then your doe is steel and has a fawn parent. This means she can't be is unlikely to be the source of the harlequin gene. So your buck must be may well be a harlequinized chinchilla, although any harlequin markings seem to be well hidden. He doesn't necessarily have to show any markings, but it is worth having a careful look for any patches that are noticably darker on one side of the body than the other or a dark mark that stops at the midline of the back or belly. This also makes me reevaluate an earlier comment that your buck's parents were "white/pale grey and grey mother". I'm now thinking the buck's sire might have been a brindled but lightly marked magpie (i.e. mostly white but with a few oddly placed grey smudges).

Edit: On second thought, it is also possible that the doe's fawn parent was a lightly marked or unmarked harlequin, so if there are no visible harlequin marks on the buck then it is possible the doe could be the source of the harlequin after all.

 

[Tbgb1912]

These genetics are super confusing XD just when I think I'm on top of them, they whip out a surprise - back at square one now :lol:
You might be onto something with the fawn however, as I have another doe from this doe's parents, just from a different litter. She is fawn, and has come up with smutty looking markings - particularly her ears are darker. I'll get photos in the daylight, probably Friday.

__________ Fri May 08, 2015 4:46 pm __________

I've looked today, and taken photos. I've looked at both my buck and my other doe that has the same parents to my seal doe - however I haven't found any markings that could indicate harlequin. Both rabbits have darker hindquarters, but neither particularly more so on either side. This has me puzzled

 

[akane]

None of the rabbits have to display harlequin in any way to have it except colors like fawn and tort can't carry it. Everything else can carry harlequin (also called brindle) hidden by a regular extension gene or a steel gene. If one parent is fawn, red, orange, tort or other nonextension colors then it is the other parent that carries harlequin. Combine a harlequin gene and a nonextension gene from those colors and you get a harlequin. More or less. The color with proper patches is best with a stricter genotype than what all we lump under the name harlequin.

 

[Zass]

Not all of the kits out of a rabbit who has only one copy of the harlequin gene will inherit it. Only about 50% will. So it makes perfect sense that some of the doe's littermates might not have any harli marks at all..

In order to get a magpie like that in the nestbox you need chinchilla expressed (cchd or cchl) and the harlequin gene ej paired with another copy of itself or the even more recessive non-extension gene.

__ __ Cchd(or cchl)_ __ ejej(or e)

My magpie buck's known genotype is A_ Bb Cchd_ D_ ejej

 

[Tbgb1912]

None of the rabbits have to display harlequin in any way to have it except colors like fawn and tort can't carry it. Everything else can carry harlequin (also called brindle) hidden by a regular extension gene or a steel gene. If one parent is fawn, red, orange, tort or other nonextension colors then it is the other parent that carries harlequin. Combine a harlequin gene and a nonextension gene from those colors and you get a harlequin. More or less. The color with proper patches is best with a stricter genotype than what all we lump under the name harlequin.

So if fawn can't carry it, then breeding that doe to my buck could result in harlequin kits if he carries harlequin? But if I don't get any harlequin kits out of those two (over numerous litters obviously) then I would know it would be my seal doe, correct? <br /><br /> __________ Fri May 08, 2015 5:22 pm __________ <br /><br />

In order to get a magpie like that in the nestbox you need chinchilla expressed (cchd or cchl) and the harlequin gene ej paired with another copy of itself or the even more recessive non-extension gene.

Which could be either of them, considering I haven't figured out my does genetics yet :lol: what a mission

 

[akane]

If a fawn to another rabbit throws a nonextension then that rabbit does not have harlequin without question. If you just don't get anything but full extension rabbits then eventually you can say he probably doesn't have it but it's not guaranteed. The buck does have to contribute something if you got harlequins from him before so you should see more fawn and other nonextension colors or harlequins/magpies. It should be proven one way or the other when you see any of those offspring.

 

[Dood]

It is probably the steel seal doe who carries harlequin as it is easy for it to hide in self and full extension rabbits, genetically she would be = aa B_ cchl cchl Dd ES ej

To prove this you could breed her to a tort or sable point or fawn - around 50% the kits should be harlequin and/or magpie