E allele

[nicolejcramer]

I am just getting into rabbit genetics and am trying to learn as much as I can. I recently paired an orange buck with a cream doe, both of which are non-extension for the E allele, (ee,) correct?

In their litter that was born two weeks ago, there were 3 blue fawn harlequins. How is this possible? Shouldn’t one parent have to carry the ej allele in order to produce harli’s? Or can it hide somewhere?

Everything I’ve read states that the ej is dominant over the e, so I’m just wondering how it would hide?

 

[Alaska Satin]

Yes, <ej> is dominant over <e> and shouldn't be able to hide. And yes, orange and cream are both non-extension colors.

One way you could get harlies is if your cream wasn't actually a cream but a lynx (lilac agouti, <A_bbC_dd_E_>). An orange is hard to mistake, but those two other colors - cream and lynx - can look a lot alike. Do you have a pedigree for your doe?

Here's lynx (image credit Coat Color Photo Matrix)


and here is cream (credit Coat Color Photo Matrix)


EDIT: I just looked at your other post with the picture of the litter on it. Now I am really perplexed, since it appears you got both harlies and torts (one almost looks like it may be a lilac tort?). Even if the doe was a lynx, she'd have to be <Eej> to make the harlequins, but she'd have to be <Ee> to make the torts...

Can you post photos of your buck and doe? Could one of them have vanishingly small harlequin markings? And do you know what their pedigrees have on them?

SO INTERESTING!

 

[nicolejcramer]

Yes, <ej> is dominant over <e> and shouldn't be able to hide. And yes, orange and cream are both non-extension colors.

One way you could get harlies is if your cream wasn't actually a cream but a lynx (lilac agouti, <A_bbC_dd_E_>). An orange is hard to mistake, but those two other colors - cream and lynx - can look a lot alike. Do you have a pedigree for your doe?

Here's lynx (image credit Coat Color Photo Matrix)
View attachment 34174View attachment 34178

and here is cream (credit Coat Color Photo Matrix)
View attachment 34172 View attachment 34177

EDIT: I just looked at your other post with the picture of the litter on it. Now I am really perplexed, since it appears you got both harlies and torts (one almost looks like it may be a lilac tort?). Even if the doe was a lynx, she'd have to be <Eej> to make the harlequins, but she'd have to be <Ee> to make the torts...

Can you post photos of your buck and doe? Could one of them have vanishingly small harlequin markings? And do you know what their pedigrees have on them?

SO INTERESTING!

I know, so crazy right! I think you are right though, my orange buck does have some shading on his back, but it’s vague. We have always thought it was just smut…but maybe he’s actually a Harli? I am going to get some pictures of his back today.
Both parents are pedigreed, but the breeder could have just gotten his coloring wrong? He does have Harli, magpie, and chinchilla in his lines. I will post the pedigreed as well.

 

[judymac]

I agree, one or both of the parents may indeed be lightly marked or even non-marked harlequins. Do you have close up photos of the parents' ears and faces? Often a lightly marked harlie will show tiny bits of mottling on ears or face.

 

[nicolejcramer]

 

[judymac]

No question the lop eared rabbit has harlequin, look at the mottling on the ears, band on the back, and dark on his left front leg (on the right looking at the photo.) The doe seems to have some harlequin as well, look at the color changes in this closeup from her side:

Ideally, an orange buck should have ears the same color as the body, as should the cream. For the most part, dark colors should be eliminated from the fawn agouti coat, leaving just the phaeomelanin yellows. Yes, sometimes you get a little dark smut, but not to this extent, and not in patches like this. Smut is more like an even dark ticking on the face and ears.

 

[Alaska Satin]

Yes! I agree with @judymac about the doe looking faintly banded, possibly with some markings on her head and ears as well. The lop buck is even more certainly harlequin-marked. Here are the places we're seeing harlequin markings:



With dilute varieties it can be easy to miss minimal markings, especially in the non-extension ones like cream that already have some color variations due to the shading.

 

[nicolejcramer]

So interesting! As of right now both of their pedigrees say orange or cream. The orange I think is safe to say is harlequin.

But is there a way I could breed them separately (to a different rabbit) to either rule out or guarantee the <ej> existence? Now that both of them could potentially be harlequins?

 

[nicolejcramer]

I guess I could just breed her to a different non-extension buck and see if she produces harli’s?

 

[Alaska Satin]

I guess I could just breed her to a different non-extension buck and see if she produces harli’s?

That's right. If you get harlies with a (for sure) non-extension buck, you'd know she's <ej e>.

As far as ruling out <ej>, one breeding might be enough, but it is the luck of the draw; since you know she also carries non-extension, there is a chance that the whole litter would be non-extension even if she does carry <ej>. So, with a single litter of all non-extension kits, you wouldn't be able to say for sure she was <ee>, but it would lend support to the idea.

So interesting! As of right now both of their pedigrees say orange or cream. The orange I think is safe to say is harlequin.

Yes, I would definitely change the variety on his pedigree, especially if you sell any of his bunnies.

 

[judymac]

There is another issue with harlequin, and that is its penchant for producing mismarks, even when it is paired with a more dominant allele. I had a litter born to a normal looking wild gray chestnut out of a harlie buck. Two of the wild gray chestnut offspring were harlequinized. That means the kits had the dominant E full extension agouti gene from mom, along with the buck's e(j), but there was still some mottling in the agouti markings. So, even when you have harlequin e(j) as a recessive, it can still mess up the rabbit's color pattern, sometimes you have to look real close to see the mismarks.

 

[Alaska Satin]

The other thing you might like to know about harlequin is that when you breed a harlequin with a broken-color rabbit, you can get tricolors!

While Holland Lops are not approved in harlequin, tricolor is a recognized variety, and you need harlequins to produce tris (which may be how you ended up with harlequin Holland(s) in the first place). So if you bred your buck to a broken black doe, for instance, you might end up with even more exciting colors. I personally love tris, but have never seen a tricolor Holland.