Drinking own urine?

[MaggieJ]

About the herbs.. i didn't know mint and sage could cause abortion, good to know.. but would it be a 'stupid' idea to give it to a doe when she is expecting an unwanted litter? I have had a lot of these 'oops' litter due to my rabbits escaping and this is maybe something that might come to use when another 'accident' happens. Sorry if this sounds cruel but i was getting so desperate to call a vet and ask for a high dosis of oxytocin shot for abortion. If natural herbs do the same trick, then i would prefer to use natural products instead of a medical shot.

I don't know how reliable mint or sage would be or how much you would have to give. One member's rabbit got into her sage plant and its milk dried up. Both herbs are safe as food for rabbits, so I suppose you could give it a try. It might be better, however, to reinforce the cages and prevent the escapes.

 

[Piper]

Wiki: Natural abortifacients -- Today, many herbs and plants sold "over the counter" are claimed to act as abortifacients, either by themselves or if taken in certain doses or mixtures.[citation needed] Examples include brewer's yeast,[7] vitamin C, bitter melon,[8] wild carrot, blue cohosh, pennyroyal, nutmeg, mugwort, slippery elm, papaya, vervain, common rue, ergot, saffron and tansy. Animal studies have shown that pomegranate may be an effective abortifacient.[2][9]
--it does not list abortifacients/emmenagogues of parsley, ginger or cod liver oil, but I have heard that pregnant women should avoid those three, too. I do not know as an full abortifacient, but some women use the non toxic ones after a period, [do you want to know how I know this? :wall:. but ->] especially as they get older and may have too heavy of a flow. These herbs can help condition the uterus, since it can help / make the uterus contract. I do not know which ones may be recomended for a rabbit.

from Wiki again: [these are ones that have the potential of seriously hurting you, like ergot.
Abortifacients used by women in England in the 19th century (not necessarily safe or effective) included diachylon, savin, ergot of rye, pennyroyal, slippery elm, nutmeg, rue, squills, and hiera picra.[16]<br /><br />__________ Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:21 am __________<br /><br />

It may be a lack of iron. Supposedly part of the reason veal calves are chained in their stalls is to prevent them from drinking their own urine. Allegedly the reason their flesh is so pale is due to anemia, and they will drink their urine in their quest for it. This may be ARA propaganda- I think it came from John Robbin's book Diet for a New America which I read twenty-plus years ago.

Still, it couldn't hurt to give some extra iron. I know spinach has high levels, and I am willing to bet the Queen of Weeds (that would be MaggieJ! ) will know more weeds or plants that contain lots of iron.

MSD Thank You, for posting this, I have put the book "Diet for a New America by John Robbins (Apr 14, 1998)", on my reading list! I did not know that was how (much of) American veal was produced.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

MSD Thank You, for posting this, I have put the book "Diet for a New America by John Robbins (Apr 14, 1998)"

I wonder how that one differs from the first published in 1987? Probably a lot of new info on GMO foods. Hopefully the book will also detail the improved conditions that animals such as battery chickens are raised in now.

Traditionally, veal calves were bull calves born to dairy cows. Obviously, a dairy farmer doesn't need a bunch of extra bulls, so they were slaughtered at birth, which is why they were so tender and had a "white" meat. A German man devised a sling system so the calves could be suspended (thereby not exercising their muscles, which increases blood flow, making the meat "red") and fed for a longer duration so each calf produced more veal. The system was modified to keeping them in small crates- and allegedly they began chaining them when they drank their own urine to prevent iron intake.

 

[Piper]

MSD Thank You, for posting this, I have put the book "Diet for a New America by John Robbins (Apr 14, 1998)"

I wonder how that one differs from the first published in 1987? Probably a lot of new info on GMO foods. Hopefully the book will also detail the improved conditions that animals such as battery chickens are raised in now.

Traditionally, veal calves were bull calves born to dairy cows. Obviously, a dairy farmer doesn't need a bunch of extra bulls, so they were slaughtered at birth, which is why they were so tender and had a "white" meat. A German man devised a sling system so the calves could be suspended (thereby not exercising their muscles, which increases blood flow, making the meat "red") and fed for a longer duration so each calf produced more veal. The system was modified to keeping them in small crates- and allegedly they began chaining them when they drank their own urine to prevent iron intake.

That was the one that Amazon has listed, did not know there was an earlier edition. When I googled his name / book the links were thick. I have been reading it here
http://books.google.com/books?id=PnO7_2 ... &q&f=false
and he does write well, but I still do not think that animals wear halos.
I have not changed my mind about being a carnivore (with a fruits and vegitables) but it does make me want to know where my meat came from.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

it does make me want to know where my meat came from.

Yep. That's why we raise our own meat.

He talks about the terrible "feed lots" that beef cows are raised in, and I have found that that is pretty much nonsense. We live in cattle country, and for most of their lives, the steers are out wandering the mountains with their moms. It is only the last couple months that they are confined, and I have yet to see them crammed into a tiny pen with nowhere to move. They are usually in a large corral, with most of them grouped in one part of it of their own free will!

 

[Stormy]

it does make me want to know where my meat came from.

Yep. That's why we raise our own meat.

He talks about the terrible "feed lots" that beef cows are raised in, and I have found that that is pretty much nonsense. We live in cattle country, and for most of their lives, the steers are out wandering the mountains with their moms. It is only the last couple months that they are confined, and I have yet to see them crammed into a tiny pen with nowhere to move. They are usually in a large corral, with most of them grouped in one part of it of their own free will!

MamaSheepDog - I don't know where you are located... glad to hear cows aren't treated that way in your local feedlots. Some probably aren't that bad if its rural enough. A lot of cattle is grown out for the first year (or less?) with their mothers in pasture and wild lands - but the feed lot experience denatures the meat to something much less than healthy. Even if its just a few months of their lives, the meat is no longer the same high quality as free-range. If you've ever driven down I-5 in CA, and seen the Harris Ranch feedlots (you can smell them much sooner than you can see them - for a long ways!) it might change your mind about feedlots being an undesirable place to have food come from! They are too many cows to a pen, there isn't a stitch to eat, but the grain they're given to fatten up on. Standing in mud and filth, when I've passed... hence the stench.

I like to support our local cattle ranchers on small farms who grass feed their calves, I like to go in on cow-shares where a group of people buy a calf and divide it up - talk about the best beef ever!! I notice a HUGE difference between grass-fed beef and lamb, and grain-finished. I do not find the latter to be palatable.

I am likewise questioning why I am giving my rabbits grain at all, and I wonder if its really part of their natural diet. I need to research more about natural feeding, its a little overwhelming contemplating planting a whole field just for the bunnies!

 

[MamaSheepdog]

We raised our own steer last year- he wandered the mountain up until the last few months of his life. We fed alfalfa and grain those last months, and the meat turned out great. I would like to try grass fed, but Hubs wants fat marbling in the meat, and to be honest, I like it too. This part of California (mountains outside of Bakersfield) is very arid. The grass is golden brown most of the year. My understanding is that for good grass fed beef you want lush green pastures year round or nearly so.

I'm not sure where the Harris Ranch Feedlots are- I don't travel the 5 much anymore, and when I do I am heading South into the LA area. In Robbin's book, he makes it sound like the cattle are crammed in cheek by jowl, and I haven't seen that around here. But dairies and feed lots always reek. Time to put the AC on recirculate when driving through those areas! :x