drama at the show this weekend

[Jasharia]

I just want to tell my story about some breeder here I will not name any names as I am not here to bash just tell you all about what going on. Now all this is with English lops no other breeders I known did this.

As some of you all know I was looking into a mini rex doe for my kids line (my daughter or son is picking them up) at the same time I was selling my english lop buck. She ended up getting another buck from a verry poor breeder. She almost did not want to buy my buck so then I couldn't buy the doe. We did end up swaping the two bunnies and the broken black named Reid is my son's. Now that is not even the start of the drama

Here is Fl there are a few breeders that just don't care and will do anything for the win. A friend of mine was sold a doe that had 1 leg. She paid more becouse she alredy had a leg. When she got the doe the breeder said the leg was in the mail now 2mo latter still no leg and now she thinks she never got the leg. Same breeder sold her a doe asked $65 for her and never gave the papers. When my friend asked for them she charged $25 and took like a month of getting them. Told her that she did not know were they where or who the orginal breeder was. She only got some response when she posted on craigs list. I also delt with the same breeder and she always gave me fair prices, but I then found out the parents to both my rabbits(unrelated) died and she did not tell me why. Then a few months back the buck I got from her died we never found out why. Last month Windy developed weak anckels and she died. So both rabbits died just over a year old.

The other breeder here has been known to make false papers to make her look good. she puts false ear# and weights and false legs to them too. She also been known to change the papers. Swap out other bunnies for hers. I know I will never own a bunny that has any part of her name on it. She has like 3 names she goes by and 2 web sites.

So I sold out of all my English lops and I am going to start new. We are going out of stat and buy a few english lops there. I talked the the lop club and they recomend this breeder. I am getting a buck that has 6 legs. He has an awsome head and I might get this doe she look better then most rabbits here and she also has 2 legs. I will post pics for you all to see. and give your input on them.

Thank you Currie

 

[DevonW]

I think no matter what breed you have or what hobby you do there will always be a couple of those "bad apples" those who lie, cheat, and pretty much steal to get what they want. I'm sure you'll find they are the ones who also don't stick with the hobby long as they're just digging their own grave with their poor practices.

 

[avdpas77]

Regrettably, there are always a few, and sometimes they are "top" breeders. I think they were probably decent people early in their showing, and the drive to keep "on top" simply ruined them as trustworthy human beings. Most top breeders will not sell their top stock for any less than a fortune (unless they are infertile or something), part of this is not giving another breeder an easy chance of beating you. Some will sell only rabbits that are culls (as far as showing is concerned) Still, there are many that will sell you a good animal at a fair price. The risk is usually to the beginner....one who hasn't really learned to judge quality on their own as yet.

There are three main factors to producing a top show animal. One needs quality breeding stock, one need to have a "knack" for matching animals, and one need to be able to judge their own animals objectively and accurately. Being able to judge the combination of traits which for a "perfect"animal was always the hardest for me. I had a friend who had a terrific judging ability,
but simply could not match breeders well. We teamed up, and for a few years were almost unbeatable. After a while the drive to have the "best" every year took the fun out of it, and we both just bred as best we could, and got back to enjoying the fellowship of the shows. We had proved we could breed champions, and it was then a lot more fun to have good animals, and watch all the others stress out.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

Regrettably, there are always a few, and sometimes they are "top" breeders. I think they were probably decent people early in their showing, and the drive to keep "on top" simply ruined them as trustworthy human beings. Most top breeders will not sell their top stock for any less than a fortune (unless they are infertile or something), part of this is not giving another breeder an easy chance of beating you. Some will sell only rabbits that are culls (as far as showing is concerned) Still, there are many that will sell you a good animal at a fair price. The risk is usually to the beginner....one who hasn't really learned to judge quality on their own as yet.

One would think that being a top breeder didn't happen overnight. In other words a "top breeder" has spent a lot of money and years to get to that top spot. I think they have every right to ask "top" dollar. It is up to the buyer to choose yes or no, the "top breeder owes the buyer nothing. Also these top breeders have every right to not sell a rabbit to anyone, they own the rabbit. Also there may be many many reasons why someone would refuse to sell a rabbit to another person. Yes there are some who are out to get what they can and they ruin it for all unfortunately. But to say this drama comes from top breeders only because they want to "stay on top" is not always true.Most breeders breed for themselves first not others, they have every right to keep the picks of litters and sell those that don't fit their program.We all started, I'm sure, with less than stellar examples of our chosen breeds and we all spent a lot of time and effort to improve them; same as the top breeders out there today! To be honest those people mentioned in the OP's post probably are not all that much on the top as they make themselves out to be.

 

[Jasharia]

Ok her is what I am getting the buck is a sold cream He has 6 legs and is still young where he can get manny more. The best thing I love about him is his head nice and wide and full. Tell me what you think of him.<br /><br />__________ Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:10 am __________<br /><br />And this is the doe she is a broken cream. She also has 2 legs.

 

[HendricksHearth]

I really can't say anything about what happened with your drama at the shows, but I like that buck a lot. Nice head, good bone, smooth topline, etc. The cream doe is also nice, but it might be how she is set-up but she doesn't look to have the same width/depth/HQ/bone. Courtney has a tort doe listed on the same page that I like a bit better personally as a match for the buck, but I think both will be nice does. She has a good reputation and I wish you the best of luck with your new stock. How are you getting them to FL from up north if you don't mind my asking?

Lauren

 

[Jasharia]

A friend of mine id driveing up and getting them. She is also getting 2 rabbits from her. I think she is looking for a few more people to help with traviling. There is another girl here that wants a few. So we are spiling up the cost.

 

[Pickles]

What Beautiful buns! Congrats to you on adding these amazing animals to your herd!

 

[Jasharia]

Thank you I can not wait untill I get them. We have a convention show next month so that is where I am going to bring them and see what happens. Then we have a state fair for feb. After that is when I will start my breeding.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

Those are really excellent animals! Good luck with them they should do well especially the buck!

 

[Jasharia]

HendricksHearth I noticed that you live in GA. If you want any of Courtney's buns or my friend she has tons of babbies right now we can set up a drive by for you. We are still trying to find more people to come in and help off set the cost of gass and the rental. Her kits will be 10 weeks when she makes the trip. Or if you know anyone who might want to get in this just have them e-mail me. Here is my friends web site to look at what she has for sale. http://www.mountaintoprabbitry.com/for-sale.php

 

[billylilwigeon]

32 years ago when I first got into raising and showing rabbits, we had a breeder here in Arkansas who engaged in this same kind of nonsense. The only time that woman was lying to someone was when her lips were moving, and she was notorious for giving out fake pedigrees if/when she ever gave one out at all.

I feel for you on this one. That has to be a rather aggravating experience to go thru, but choose your next stock well and I promise, it will all turn out for the best with you.

 

[avdpas77]

Regrettably, there are always a few, and sometimes they are "top" breeders. I think they were probably decent people early in their showing, and the drive to keep "on top" simply ruined them as trustworthy human beings. Most top breeders will not sell their top stock for any less than a fortune (unless they are infertile or something), part of this is not giving another breeder an easy chance of beating you. Some will sell only rabbits that are culls (as far as showing is concerned) Still, there are many that will sell you a good animal at a fair price. The risk is usually to the beginner....one who hasn't really learned to judge quality on their own as yet.

One would think that being a top breeder didn't happen overnight. In other words a "top breeder" has spent a lot of money and years to get to that top spot. I think they have every right to ask "top" dollar. It is up to the buyer to choose yes or no, the "top breeder owes the buyer nothing. Also these top breeders have every right to not sell a rabbit to anyone, they own the rabbit. Also there may be many many reasons why someone would refuse to sell a rabbit to another person. Yes there are some who are out to get what they can and they ruin it for all unfortunately. But to say this drama comes from top breeders only because they want to "stay on top" is not always true.Most breeders breed for themselves first not others, they have every right to keep the picks of litters and sell those that don't fit their program.We all started, I'm sure, with less than stellar examples of our chosen breeds and we all spent a lot of time and effort to improve them; same as the top breeders out there today! To be honest those people mentioned in the OP's post probably are not all that much on the top as they make themselves out to be.

You need to re read my post a bit closer. I only said that Sometimes it was top breeders. A breeder does, in fact, have the right to sell any rabbit hey have at any price they want. It does not show much integrity, though, when a "top" breeder sells a novice a sterile doe or a cull youngster at a high price excusing that price by saying it is a "championship' line. That is why I urged novices to learn to evaluate a "good" rabbit. Some rabbit breeders, "top" or not, are unscrupulous, but I expect more integrity from champion breeders than from a backyard breeder just trying to make a buck. He is selling a cull rabbit for $10-20 dollars, not $250.

If you have not seen this yet you are not going to many national championship shows.

 

[DevonW]

You need to re read my post a bit closer. I only said that Sometimes it was top breeders. A breeder does, in fact, have the right to sell any rabbit hey have at any price they want. It does not show much integrity, though, when a "top" breeder sells a novice a sterile doe or a cull youngster at a high price excusing that price by saying it is a "championship' line. That is why I urged novices to learn to evaluate a "good" rabbit. Some rabbit breeders, "top" or not, are unscrupulous, but I expect more integrity from champion breeders than from a backyard breeder just trying to make a buck. He is selling a cull rabbit for $10-20 dollars, not $250.

If you have not seen this yet you are not going to many national championship shows.

(Poster's comment removed here by MaggieJ, due to rude and disrespectful nature of language used.)

I can list every ARBA Convention, State Conventions, National Breed Show, and State Fair we've been too in the past 8 years, as well as every major Show our Canadian Club has thrown as well. I personally know numerous "top" breeders for the breeds I've raised. I've also beaten them in National shows and guess what? They're the first to congratulate you. It takes a lot of hard work to get to the top so they've earned the prices they're asking and lines, no matter what you think do matter (a crappy rabbit from an excellent genetic background, guess what can produce wonderfully). It's up to the buyer to not be ignorant, you can tell the person what the rabbit has what it doesn't have if they choose to buy it that's their choice the "perfect" rabbit is never going to be for sale for $10.00. If you call a "top" breeder up any other time of the year you can get a great rabbit for a fraction of the National show price. Conventions can be expensive so selling rabbits at higher prices helps cover the travel costs everyone knows that.

I've personally sold poor rabbits are highly inflated prices, and guess what the offspring of those poor rabbits have beaten the offspring from the great rabbits I've kept. I've also bought poor rabbits for a hugely inflated price and those "poor" rabbits have produced some of the best kits I've ever seen here. I've also bought great rabbits for cheap with an unrecognizable pedigree and they produced trash. What you see is only half of what the rabbit can produce.

 

[MaggieJ]

Devon, please keep your comments civil. I'd appreciate it if you would edit your last post's first line. :respect:

 

[DevonW]

Sorry for offending but I do believe I have a right to free speech. So edit it if you want, I'm not going to.

 

[MaggieJ]

Free speech is fine, but blatantly disrespectful language is unacceptable here. I hope you will change your mind. You are bright enough to find an acceptable way of expressing your disagreement.

 

[ottersatin]

Hey DevonW,
be the Man! I am certain that you have the tools to be able to rephrase
your post into more acceptable wording and still get your point across.
We all know how easy it is to choose the low class words and phrases to
get your point across while still getting a rise out of those who find
crude wording to be offensive.
I hope you can make the right choice so as not to offend anyone.
You know how easily some can be offended by WORDS!
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[billylilwigeon]

I can list every ARBA Convention, State Conventions, National Breed Show, and State Fair we've been too in the past 8 years, as well as every major Show our Canadian Club has thrown as well. I personally know numerous "top" breeders for the breeds I've raised. I've also beaten them in National shows and guess what? They're the first to congratulate you. It takes a lot of hard work to get to the top so they've earned the prices they're asking and lines, no matter what you think do matter (a crappy rabbit from an excellent genetic background, guess what can produce wonderfully). It's up to the buyer to not be ignorant, you can tell the person what the rabbit has what it doesn't have if they choose to buy it that's their choice the "perfect" rabbit is never going to be for sale for $10.00. If you call a "top" breeder up any other time of the year you can get a great rabbit for a fraction of the National show price. Conventions can be expensive so selling rabbits at higher prices helps cover the travel costs everyone knows that.

I've personally sold poor rabbits are highly inflated prices, and guess what the offspring of those poor rabbits have beaten the offspring from the great rabbits I've kept. I've also bought poor rabbits for a hugely inflated price and those "poor" rabbits have produced some of the best kits I've ever seen here. I've also bought great rabbits for cheap with an unrecognizable pedigree and they produced (expletive). What you see is only half of what the rabbit can produce.

It's less about spending hig money, and more about doing homework, but what was originally posted about big-name breeders is spot on in as many cases as not. I ran into it when I began contacting breeders to find breeding stock for my re-entry into the showrooms. There were at least as many rude and uppity people among their ranks as there were ones who were helpful. One big-name breeder literally laughed me off the telephone when I contacted him. As you may have guessed, I simply eased on down the road and contacted someone else who was more interested in helping me advance a breed which quite frankly is struggling in showroom numbers.

The fun of it all is when you force them to respect you by beating them in the showroom in front of their peers. Most of the time, it's easier said than done, but to pretend that big-name breeders are somehow entitled to treat others in a way which demonstrates personal disrespect due to status (or the lack thereof) is totally uncalled for.

And I'll agree with the previous posters, you were a little harsh in your response. You're better than that.

 

[avdpas77]

My comments were not meant to offend or demean anyone except, perhaps, unscroupulous breeders. I was responding to a post from somone whom appeared to be a novice at show rabbits. It takes a while to learn the vageries of conformation of any show animal, and for some it is harder than others to learn all the nuances. Being of modest income should not prevent a person from raising winning show animals. However, if that person spends big dollars on inferior stock then they are not to be able to spend that kind of money again, and will leave dissapointed and somewhat poorer. Again, the main point of my original comment was to encourage the beginner to learn as much as they can before purchasing. To win at most shows of any caliber a person is probably going to have to invest in some expensive stock. They should not be taken advantage of by a notable breeder because of their ignorance. The only way I could see my comments might offend you is if you are one such breeder.