Does this look like a mini or holland lop?

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CochinBrahmaLover

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Considering getting a BEW holland lop, they sent me a few shoddy pics, this was the best. She also sent a video and it just seems... Very mini lop-y.

If they can remember what the breeders name was that'd be nice so I can just see what the breeder breeds, but they don't seem to be able to remember.
 
Typical because they are not worked as much as what black, tort, blue, and other varieties are in HL. They cause more unshowables to show up trying to improve type than any other color I am aware of and the gene can hide for generations even after what seems to be a normal but is really a carrier is produced (this goes back to throwing unshowables any thing from marbled/split/wrong eye colors to white markings). They are not competitive and the few breeders that have them to that point are far and few in between. I know of 2, Blue Sapphire and Camelot's.

There are enough to keep them from being dropped by the ARBA as a recognized breed (thankfully). I love the color, but I could never get any thing worth working with. My best ever produced bew for me was still far from the ugliest black I had in my barn and I'd not even bother comparing to a tort or even chinchillas. Maybe one day, when there are some as nice as the torts I can get, I will get them back. But for now I just watch and hope. Finding a quality BEW, is expensive. The ones I had purchased and sold were $50.00 and up and they were JUST good enough to breed for pieces. The nice ones I've looked at, where over $250.00.
 
Rebel.Rose.Rabbitry":3of1ij4p said:
Typical because they are not worked as much as what black, tort, blue, and other varieties are in HL. They cause more unshowables to show up trying to improve type than any other color I am aware of and the gene can hide for generations even after what seems to be a normal but is really a carrier is produced (this goes back to throwing unshowables any thing from marbled/split/wrong eye colors to white markings). They are not competitive and the few breeders that have them to that point are far and few in between. I know of 2, Blue Sapphire and Camelot's.

There are enough to keep them from being dropped by the ARBA as a recognized breed (thankfully). I love the color, but I could never get any thing worth working with. My best ever produced bew for me was still far from the ugliest black I had in my barn and I'd not even bother comparing to a tort or even chinchillas. Maybe one day, when there are some as nice as the torts I can get, I will get them back. But for now I just watch and hope. Finding a quality BEW, is expensive. The ones I had purchased and sold were $50.00 and up and they were JUST good enough to breed for pieces. The nice ones I've looked at, where over $250.00.
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Wait, so they're considered a breed, or a color? Did you mean color? Unless they plan on dropping holland lops if there were less...?

So, I have a black tort who carries a vienna gene. Could you get good BEW out of her?
 
ARBA can and will drop any variety that goes below a certain number of shows at convention. The exact number I do not remember.

They are a color, not a breed (BEW-blue eyed white). It is possible, but it is also possible to get just VMs or VCs. In a perfect roll, you would get some bews...but with breeding we all know that's not perfect roll.
 
Normally BEW are not out crossed to other colours because of the fear of Vienna carriers contaminating other colours and disqualifying white / Vienna marks cropping up in stock.

But pet buyers like the odd white marks of Vienna carriers and the sky blue eyes so many non-show quality Hollands have the gene.

I still think it looks like a Mini, ANYTHING with lop ears is called a "holland" in my area :) but IF it is really 2 pounds it's likely a holland, however IMHO that rabbit is not even close to 2 pounds and probably closer to 5 :) any pictures with something in the background we can compare it to, or ask for one? A ruler? Can of pop or a water bottle?
 
Dood":1d9gunjf said:
Normally BEW are not out crossed to other colours because if the fear of Vienna carriers contaminating other colours and disqauifying white / Vienna marks cropping up in stock.

But pet buyers like the odd white marks of Vienna carriers and the sky blue eyes so many non-show quality Hollands have the gene.

I still think it looks like a Mini, ANYTHING with lop ears is called a "holland" in my area :) but IF it is really 2 pounds it's likely a holland, however IMHO that rabbit is not even close to 2 pounds and probably closer to 5 :) any pictures with something in the background we can compare it to, or ask for one? A ruler? Can of pop or a water bottle?
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Well if you remember my post about asking what color my buck was, you know the breeder I got them from definitely hasn't paid much attention to the colors, lol. (Oh, and the buck is a blue tort for sure).

Well, since I'm not getting the rabbit I don't want to bug them more. But she sent a video and the rabbit was roughly the size of a normal pillow (like, 75% the size). I shouldn't have even been looking at rabbits, but a BEW holland lop showing up w/ a pedigree?? I had to ask, lol. Usually around here they just call them mini rabbits, or lopped rabbits, not necessarily Hollands.

They said she had a pedigree, and that she came from a breeder, but I'm iffy on that. I could understand them getting a pet quality rabbit from a shower, but they said they paid $60 for her. Maybe she's a good quality mini lop? Idk.
 
Its possible they bought a pedigreed one at that, some people sell pets with pedigrees and some just won't sell what others would see as just pets and tell people if they want one as a pet that they have for sale that's fine but I'm not dropping my price and leaving off the pedigree etc.

The pedigree should list the breeder prefix at the least and ideally the breeder (if it is the original). THAT is your best mark what she is really. I have seen some that were so close you couldn't tell, big HL can look like ML and small ML can look like HL...crosses can look better than pures. Just have to wait and see :)
 
She looks like a BEW Holland, they are just kind of weird looking, worth asking what breeder she is from. There haven't been a lot of people working on color AND type. So in the beginning you got people crossing just to get color and the defining Holland characteristics weren't bred in. People get color blind really easy too, I see people posting their awful BEW online all the time and thinking they are the perfect Holland.

I also have BEW Hollands and they are frustrating, I wouldn't recommend them to a beginner. You really need a basis of awesome typed Hollands to cross in to make VC and then cross those back into your BEW program. Then be ruthless on culling for type. My BEW Hollands are hands down the ugliest in my barn but they both have some good points and I think they can out produce themselves. I would love to have a show worthy one some day.

Blue Sapphire Lops has great BEW and I like Camelot's as well (I like her rabbits in general and have two VC from her BEW line)

I did a short blog post on the subject http://dangerbunnyfarm.blogspot.com/201 ... stuff.html

But here's the chart of what you get while crossing
BEW - Blue Eyed White. Which is a solid white rabbit with blue eyes.
VM - Vienna Marked, also known as "Sports". Which means that a rabbit carries the gene and shows it. For example: a solid black rabbit with white spots or patches, white toenails, blue eyes, ect.
VC - Vienna Carrier. Which means the rabbit carries the gene, but doesn't show it.

The Vienna gene must be present in both parents in order to get a BEW. Here are a few crosses that could be made and the results that you should get...

Normal Coloured Rabbit (VV) x BEW (vv) = All (Vv) - all will carry the gene, but no BEWs.
Normal Coloured Rabbit (VV) x VM or VC (Vv) = 50% will carry the gene & 50% will not. This is not a desirable cross, as you will have a good chance of not knowing what carries and will likely waste cage space & time.
VM or VC (Vv) x VM or VC (Vv) = 25% BEW, 50% carriers, & 25% non-carriers. In this case there is a chance that you will not know which are carriers or non-carriers. It is advisable to not use the rabbits from this cross because you cannot tell whether they carry or not - again, a waste of time & space.
BEW (vv) x VM or VC (Vv) = 50% BEW, 50% carriers - marked or not.
BEW (vv) x BEW (vv) = 100% BEW
 

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