Doe killed kits? updated- with pictures (in replies)

[Dogwoodrabbits]

about 2 weeks ago one of our does had 12, they all lived, two of them looked like they werent going to make it. the other doe who i breed at the same time never had kits, i guess she didnt take. but we had a doe have kits 4 days after her, so i gave her the 2 b/c she had 7, 1 DOA. they were all the same size b/c the two werent eating. she took them fine, and they are doing great!

BUT the mom who had 12 (now 10) lost one kit.. just it was gone. i couldnt find it in the cage, in the box, under the cage. nothing. so im guessing she either threw it out or it got out and something ate it... then two days later 5 more of them where missing. i couldnt fine them ANYWHERE. the 4 that where left were out of the nesting box (this was a few days ago) and freaked out, running around screaming and carring on. when i grabed them to put them back in the box, after a good check over and they looked fine, they would scream. and i hav handled them a little bit... and they have never screamed like that before. so i m thinking something got in there and ate sme of them? idk.. maybe a snake? they werent the youngest in the rabbit shed (well its a carport with an open front) and they werent the oldest either. the mom was fine and happy and friendly like always, and all the other bunnies where fine. no damang to he cage or anything.

well this AM 1 is just missing and 2 are dead and the other i had to put down. 1 of the dead ones looked fine and omral other then bedin dead. and the other 2 where all bitten up and toren up. so id sh kill them?

and im sorry this is long

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

I can't imagine a doe killing kits that are ambulatory!!! And for them to be totally gone would mean she would have had to eat them, causing a definite change in her droppings. What size is the cage wire? rats,snakes, minks, raccoons (raccoons will reach in and pull out! Minks and rats can leave no trace behind when feeding their young.

 

[akane]

You have rats? We lost all but 2 from a litter of 8 to rats and the kits would scream and scream when you reached in the box.

 

[MaggieJ]

My guess would be rats. Could be a weasel or mink, but rats are a lot more common. They get very bold once they get a taste for something.

A snake would eat one kit and then go off to sleep it off.

 

[Dogwoodrabbits]

wow it could be rats for sure. but i cant see them getting into the cages with them... this all happened in the cage closest to the "barn". they are in a carport that has one of its end up aganist the barn/shed... so i could see it being rats. ill take pictures of the shed here in a bit and you tll me if you think its possiable for rats to get in there. if it was rats, what do i do? we have a cat, but she is huge and preggo so maybe shes not mousing like she nomrally does... do we just set up traps everywhere? we have chickens and dogs and the cat so we cant use anything oral to kill it.. or them. thank you so much!

 

[MaggieJ]

Rats can get into most cages quite easily. Trust me on that. Wire larger than 1"? Easy. J-feeders? In they come. Cage door has a bit of "give". Open invitation. Rats can jump to incredible heights and are relentless. The more there are, the bolder and more aggressive they get.

Poison. I hate to say it, I hate to use it, but it is just about the only way to rapidly reduce rat populations. Make sure pets and other critters cannot access the bait and be vigilant for dead and dying rats so you can clean up the carcasses before pets or livestock find them. It's a nasty business, but best done aggressively and quickly before things get worse.

The very best thing for cleaning out vermin is a resident weasel or mink. We are currently rat-free here, courtesy of a family of weasels. They bring their own set of problems, but nothing as bad as those rats bring with them.

 

[Dogwoodrabbits]

wow, okay so i checked the cage, and they could have gotten in right thought the door. which does have a little bit of a give to it. and thats the ONLY cage that had babies in it with a door like that, the other ones open from the top. and then the buck has a door like that. but there is really NO way we could use poison... i mean maybe. but we free range our chickens... our dogs pretty much do whatever they want. but i guess i could stop free ranging the chickens and keep the dogs indoors.. my lab is a great finder of anything dead tho. we do have another buck who is in a cage that opens from the top.. i could switch them maybe? but im sure they would just fine a way to get in anyways... uggg im so annoyed... i really never thouht about rats when i thought about animals we would have to worry about.

__________ Wed May 25, 2011 11:20 am __________

the shed, its a mess in there, and my 2 year old

how high the cages are off the ground- not all that high

the door to her cage

her cage

 

[MaggieJ]

I free range my chickens. When we have poison down I make sure it is in places the chickens cannot get at and I do a walk-around before I let them out in the morning and pick up carcasses. Most of them die in their burrows or other inaccessible places and (hopefully) are consumed by their buddies, but over a period of about a month we picked up over 30 dead or dying rats around or in our critter houses. We didn't lose any chickens.

A dog is a bigger problem, especially one that loves dead stuff. We don't have dogs, so I really can't advise. There are a variety of traps you can use: snap traps, bucket traps, live traps etc. but rats breed very fast and traps don't work as quickly as poison. But you definitely need to address the issue... If it is rats, it's only going to get worse if you do nothing.

I suggest you set at least half a dozen snap traps made for rats. Bait them with something delicious (we found dates worked well and they are sticky enough to stay in the little cups in the traps) and see if you catch some. If you catch even one, you can be pretty sure rats are the culprits.

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

You CAN put the baited traps, and even poison, UNDER or IN a larger container that resident poultry and pets cannot get into, or turn over--

So, take something like an old tote, cut a hole big enough for rat, but not your critters in it-- on each end, You WANT the rodent pathway to remain intact-- they like to run along walls and other edges.. Set your poison or well baited trap in/under the tote, weight the tote so it cannot be moved by your own critters (cement block worked for me, just to keep Connor OUT of storage totes!)

 

[akane]

Keeping poison away from animals is easy. Just get a commercial bait station that locks with a key. We have one actually in the colony on the floor with the rabbits. Keeping animals from eating poisoned rodents is a little harder. Odds are if they eat one or 2 nothing would happen though. We never would have known my dog managed to eat poisoned mice except she then went in for spay surgery and her blood did not clot enough afterward. They don't get much getting the poison second hand. I'm told some poisons do not effect critters higher up the food chain but I've never seen that on any of the packages in stores.

 

[bunhallarabbitry]

I never thought of rats killing baby rabbits before. I actually breed rats and from their intelligence and boldness, I could very well imagine a wild one doing so though. Especially if it was a mom feeding her pups. All of my rats are as sweet as pie, but when the moms have their babies, I steer clear. They get extremely aggressive. We actually have one of our smaller girls bite a chunk (literally a chunk) out of my cat's tail because it got too close to the cage. I couldn't imagine what our big boys could do (the largest is 1 lb 4oz). Rats are also one of those animals that once they remember a way out (or in) they don't forget. They are extremely determined and more intelligent than some dogs I know . As much as I hate poison and traps, I would say that you should implement one of those for the safety of your rabbits.

 

[akane]

The intelligence is what makes poison necessary. We put all sorts of traps out including ones made specifically for rats with all sorts of bait. We tried every thing we could think of. Never did catch a rat despite the fact there were so many they'd just be running around you while you were in the building. Poison was the only way to go. After a year of avoiding it and trying to capture them the rats were gone within 2 weeks. We only ever saw 2 bodies. The rest died in their tunnels. Now I just make sure to fill the bait station once a month and we never see them again.

 

[Dogwoodrabbits]

our rabbit area is pretty open so they could live out in a field and come in to eat the loose food and clearly the babies. so i guess im going to have to just use the nasty stuff... what do i get? and where? what works the best?<br /><br />__________ Wed May 25, 2011 2:19 pm __________<br /><br />and thank you everyone! i really had no idea what it could be... i was really thinking snakes! but rats do make way more since! so thank you for all the help!

 

[MaggieJ]

I recommend a one feeding poison. The older ones that gradually poison the rats give them time to learn it makes them sick. The waxy bars are good in damp areas... They are usually bright green or blue. If you google something like "killing rats" or "rat control" you will find tons of information.

 

[margali]

How long is the shelf life of rat poison? The previous owner of the house I'm get spilled D-con pellets all over in the basement. Afriad my cats will find some poisoned rats or loose pellets even after I clean.

 

[akane]

Long. Officially some packages say as short of time as a year. Unofficially we had some sitting on a shelf in the tack room from when we moved out there when I was a kid. 10 years later someone's dog got in to it and still ended up nearly dying.