Doe is emptying nest box and cage floor

[mcrvdeb]

I am a new meat rabbit owner of several does who were said to be "proven". I just placed nest box in cage of one of the older does on day 28 (yesterday). Went out later in the afternoon and found that she had emptied her nest box, leaving all the straw and shavings all over the cage floor. I left it alone, assuming she would put it back into the box the way she wanted it. When I went out this morning, the nest box was absolutely empty, and she had chewed all the straw into 1+ inch pieces and pushed it all out of the cage. Her cage is immaculate! I put more straw into the nest box and on cage floor to see what would happen and she is again cleaning house so to speak. Not quite sure what to do. Is it possible that she knows she isn't pregnant and doesn't want the nest box in there? Do I keep refilling until she has kits or day 34 with no kits? I would reuse the clean straw she has tossed out, but it's in such tiny pieces now I can't really pick it up. Our day and nighttime temps are very low right now and I'm afraid that she might kindle after clearing out nest, leaving nothing to protect kits. She is not pulling fur yet, but I realize that may happen closer to or during kindling.
This doe is very fastidious. She shoves her wood chew blocks and pinecones into one corner when she is done chewing and I had noticed that when I put new hay in for her to eat, she will eat a small amount then shove the rest of the hay out of her cage. Her previous owner had not fed hay, pellets only, so I assumed she just didn't feel the need to keep any for later munching.
Thanks for any advice.

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

Is she putting them into a specific corner? Try putting the nest box there if it's not her pee spot

 

[mcrvdeb]

This doe has literally removed all the straw, shavings, and hay from her cage. She isn't piling anything inside the cage. It is all outside underneath the cage. The nest box is in a corner across the cage from her pee spot and is empty of all but a small handful of shavings. My understanding is that she has had multiple litters in the past and has been a good mom. Her previous owner sold rabbits to the local zoo, so he bred them regularly and only got rid of this group because he was moving out of the area and did not have housing set up yet. The other pregnant doe has been setting up her nest and pulling fur since I put the boxes in yesterday.

 

[Alaska Satin]

This doe has literally removed all the straw, shavings, and hay from her cage. She isn't piling anything inside the cage. It is all outside underneath the cage. The nest box is in a corner across the cage from her pee spot and is empty of all but a small handful of shavings. My understanding is that she has had multiple litters in the past and has been a good mom. Her previous owner sold rabbits to the local zoo, so he bred them regularly and only got rid of this group because he was moving out of the area and did not have housing set up yet. The other pregnant doe has been setting up her nest and pulling fur since I put the boxes in yesterday.

It sounds pretty unusual. Have you seen her hay-staching at all, like this?

Sometimes does trim the hay to a length of their own preference. I've never seen them cut it into tiny pieces, but obviously your doe is unique. If she's been hay-staching, it could be that she is just in a frenzy of nest-building, digging and shoveling and pushing the nesting materials around. We had a doe that normally was a great mother, but for one litter she rebuilt her nest multiple times a day, even after the kits were born, which resulted in her kicking the babies across the cage every time she excavated a new nest bowl. We had to take the kits out for about a week, only returning them once a day for her to feed them; after that she settled down and things went fine.

If your doe is pregnant, I do think you're right about worrying about the kits getting chilled in a bare wire cage. What you might try is giving the doe a box with high sides all around, with no low point for an entrance (but no top, obviously), and fill it with several inches of wood shavings and then tons of hay. That would make it harder for her to kick and throw bedding out. If she's really intent she'll throw the hay out the top, but would have a harder time getting rid of wood shavings. The other thing is that even without nesting material, if she covers the babies with fur after she has them, they'll probably be fine even in an otherwise empty nest box until you find them and give them more bedding.

When I have had a doe who doesn't seem to want to use a nest box at all, I pretty much fill the cage with nest boxes, wall-to-wall, so she doesn't really have a choice but to use one box or another. Usually she ends up building a nest in one and sitting in the other (often using it as a potty tray). This cage full of boxes only lasts for a day or two. Once she has the babies, I pull the rest of the boxes out. I've not yet had a doe who dragged her babies out of a box; once they're born, the doe just seems to go with it.

Another thing we've done with does we didn't trust to "do the right thing" is to put them in a plastic dog kennel, and bring them inside where we can watch them on the night they are due. This has the advantage of letting you watch the birth, which is exciting even after you've been raising rabbits for along time.

This is the kind of kennel I mean:

We completely fill the kennel with hay and put a baby guard across the front grate, so that the doe will have the babies where they can stay warm, at least until we find them. Be sure to have a water bottle on the kennel. We initially worried about the doe squishing them in the small space, but the 3-4 times we've done this, all of the kits have lived. Even though it's generally recommended not to move the doe right before kindling, this has saved litters for us from does who steadfastly refused to use a nest box.

Once we feel sure that all of the babies have been born in the kennel, we move them into a regular nest box and put the doe back in her normal cage, and the doe takes it from there. If you're still worried about the doe flinging them out by digging in the box, you can do what's called "shelving the litter," which means keeping the box inside with you, and taking it out once or twice a day for the doe to feed the kits. Usually she's full of milk and quite happy to go in the box to let them nurse. This is more work for you, but it it also allows you to keep an eye on the kits, and to handle them a little, which usually makes for more easily-handled bunnies later. One more suggestion I'd have about shelving, is to give the doe another nest box for the first few days, so that you can collect fur she may pull, and add it to the box the babies are in. Some does don't pull fur till the day they kindle, but will often keep pulling fur for several days (whether or not there are babies in the box).

 

[mcrvdeb]

It sounds pretty unusual. Have you seen her hay-staching at all, like this?
View attachment 44225
Sometimes does trim the hay to a length of their own preference. I've never seen them cut it into tiny pieces, but obviously your doe is unique. If she's been hay-staching, it could be that she is just in a frenzy of nest-building, digging and shoveling and pushing the nesting materials around. We had a doe that normally was a great mother, but for one litter she rebuilt her nest multiple times a day, even after the kits were born, which resulted in her kicking the babies across the cage every time she excavated a new nest bowl. We had to take the kits out for about a week, only returning them once a day for her to feed them; after that she settled down and things went fine.

If your doe is pregnant, I do think you're right about worrying about the kits getting chilled in a bare wire cage. What you might try is giving the doe a box with high sides all around, with no low point for an entrance (but no top, obviously), and fill it with several inches of wood shavings and then tons of hay. That would make it harder for her to kick and throw bedding out. If she's really intent she'll throw the hay out the top, but would have a harder time getting rid of wood shavings. The other thing is that even without nesting material, if she covers the babies with fur after she has them, they'll probably be fine even in an otherwise empty nest box until you find them and give them more bedding.

When I have had a doe who doesn't seem to want to use a nest box at all, I pretty much fill the cage with nest boxes, wall-to-wall, so she doesn't really have a choice but to use one box or another. Usually she ends up building a nest in one and sitting in the other (often using it as a potty tray). This cage full of boxes only lasts for a day or two. Once she has the babies, I pull the rest of the boxes out. I've not yet had a doe who dragged her babies out of a box; once they're born, the doe just seems to go with it.

Another thing we've done with does we didn't trust to "do the right thing" is to put them in a plastic dog kennel, and bring them inside where we can watch them on the night they are due. This has the advantage of letting you watch the birth, which is exciting even after you've been raising rabbits for along time.

This is the kind of kennel I mean:
View attachment 44228
We completely fill the kennel with hay and put a baby guard across the front grate, so that the doe will have the babies where they can stay warm, at least until we find them. Be sure to have a water bottle on the kennel. We initially worried about the doe squishing them in the small space, but the 3-4 times we've done this, all of the kits have lived. Even though it's generally recommended not to move the doe right before kindling, this has saved litters for us from does who steadfastly refused to use a nest box.

Once we feel sure that all of the babies have been born in the kennel, we move them into a regular nest box and put the doe back in her normal cage, and the doe takes it from there. If you're still worried about the doe flinging them out by digging in the box, you can do what's called "shelving the litter," which means keeping the box inside with you, and taking it out once or twice a day for the doe to feed the kits. Usually she's full of milk and quite happy to go in the box to let them nurse. This is more work for you, but it has the advantage of your being able to keep an eye on the kits, and also to handle them a little, which usually makes for more easily-handled bunnies later. One more suggestion I'd have about shelving, is to give the doe another nest box for the first few days, so that you can collect fur she may pull, and add it to the box the babies are in. Some does don't pull fur till the day they kindle, but will often keep pulling fur for several days (whether or not there are babies in the box).

Thank you for the very thorough reply! No, she has not been hay-staching, at least when I am present. This doe stops everything when I am around or stomps and heads for the opposite side of the cage and waits until I leave to do anything. Tulip cleared out the nest box again today and shoved everything thru the cage floor. I just refilled the box with fresh shavings and straw and decided to move it to the only other available corner that isn't her pee spot. This time I placed a large container under the cage to catch all the straw so I can reuse it if necessary. If she is pulling it all out of the box with plans to put it back the way she likes it, the fact that it is falling thru the floor is defeating her intent. I will see what happens tonight and tomorrow. I may block off part of the floor to at least keep the straw in the cage.
I do have multiple extra nest boxes I can use to fill the space and will put in if she starts building a nest outside the box. I also have a dog crate available if it comes to that. It never occurred to me ask the previous owner what type of next boxes he used or what he filled them with. Not sure if any of that matters though. I just checked the other pregnant doe's nest box and she has built a beautiful nest, with lots of fur in a bowl shape in the back so I have high hopes.

 

[Phrick]

The TL : DR of all this is, all the does seem to be different! I spent a lot of time anxiously wondering why they weren't doing it right the first few births and finally was able to let Nature do its thing. Congrats on being a new owner and having litters incoming, it's awesome. You'll get the hang of how your particular does do things as time passes.

I have a doe out in the shed giving birth as I type (I noticed the blood spots starting and left to give her privacy, I'll finish the chores when I go check on her in another 40 min or so). She has not pulled fur or built a nest, but also has not been using it as a potty box. This is her fourth litter and seems to be her pattern - she doesn't build a nest or pull fur until the babies are falling out of her. I put in the box with whatever bedding and she always investigates, sits in it, but doesn't DO anything with it until the babies are HERE.

Contrast that with another doe, fourth litter due by tomorrow, who has been nesting for the last 4 days (hay-staching and etc) but at the same time, totally pees in her nest box no matter where I put it, has not pulled fur yet, and has rearranged everything half a dozen times including tossing all the bedding out, which falls through the floor. Like you mentioned, I put a container under it to catch some of the stuff she tosses out to reuse - not that the bedding materials are expensive but they do clog up my waste system and it gets annoying lol.

Doe three, due by Friday, has shown no signs of nesting yet but I also haven't given her a box yet. I'll do that later today. It'll be her sixth litter and she's usually textbook, except... ALL of my does kindle on day 31, not day 30. I've never had one kindle at 30 days. I have had one kindle at 32 days but it's a little hard to tell bc I don't breed them like "normal" - instead I put them together for 48 hours and go do my other farm things, so I never truly know what day the impregnation happens LOL but it works anyway!

The first two does have both had their babies on the wire in the past, so now when we're at day 30 and beyond I always take a rubber hot water bottle out with me (I bought a little 1L one on Amazon forever ago). I fill it from my electric kettle, which I stop when the temp is barely past 100, that way if I find kits on the wire when I go out I can plop them into the box on the water bottle - it's saved at least 3 litters so far. The does catch on and get in the box pretty quick usually. I haven't needed it since the third litters, but it's kind of one of those talisman things - the time I decide I don't need it is the time I'll wish I had it, so I take it anyway. After a lot of asking and reading here, I decided my does get 3 chances to get with it on birthing/mothering but if they never do figure it out then they're out of my breeding program. So far I have only had to remove 2 does from breeding for being a bad mom (and to be honest one of them I knew I should not have bred but did it anyway so that's really on me)

 

[mcrvdeb]

The TL : DR of all this is, all the does seem to be different! I spent a lot of time anxiously wondering why they weren't doing it right the first few births and finally was able to let Nature do its thing. Congrats on being a new owner and having litters incoming, it's awesome. You'll get the hang of how your particular does do things as time passes.

I have a doe out in the shed giving birth as I type (I noticed the blood spots starting and left to give her privacy, I'll finish the chores when I go check on her in another 40 min or so). She has not pulled fur or built a nest, but also has not been using it as a potty box. This is her fourth litter and seems to be her pattern - she doesn't build a nest or pull fur until the babies are falling out of her. I put in the box with whatever bedding and she always investigates, sits in it, but doesn't DO anything with it until the babies are HERE.

Contrast that with another doe, fourth litter due by tomorrow, who has been nesting for the last 4 days (hay-staching and etc) but at the same time, totally pees in her nest box no matter where I put it, has not pulled fur yet, and has rearranged everything half a dozen times including tossing all the bedding out, which falls through the floor. Like you mentioned, I put a container under it to catch some of the stuff she tosses out to reuse - not that the bedding materials are expensive but they do clog up my waste system and it gets annoying lol.

Doe three, due by Friday, has shown no signs of nesting yet but I also haven't given her a box yet. I'll do that later today. It'll be her sixth litter and she's usually textbook, except... ALL of my does kindle on day 31, not day 30. I've never had one kindle at 30 days. I have had one kindle at 32 days but it's a little hard to tell bc I don't breed them like "normal" - instead I put them together for 48 hours and go do my other farm things, so I never truly know what day the impregnation happens LOL but it works anyway!

The first two does have both had their babies on the wire in the past, so now when we're at day 30 and beyond I always take a rubber hot water bottle out with me (I bought a little 1L one on Amazon forever ago). I fill it from my electric kettle, which I stop when the temp is barely past 100, that way if I find kits on the wire when I go out I can plop them into the box on the water bottle - it's saved at least 3 litters so far. The does catch on and get in the box pretty quick usually. I haven't needed it since the third litters, but it's kind of one of those talisman things - the time I decide I don't need it is the time I'll wish I had it, so I take it anyway. After a lot of asking and reading here, I decided my does get 3 chances to get with it on birthing/mothering but if they never do figure it out then they're out of my breeding program. So far I have only had to remove 2 does from breeding for being a bad mom (and to be honest one of them I knew I should not have bred but did it anyway so that's really on me)

Thanks! Checked again this morning (day 30) and Tulip has again emptied about half the contents of her box. Again, all the straw in the container under her cage is about 1-2 inches long. She has a tunnel to the back in what is left but no fur pulling yet. I'm just going to keep an eye on her and refill her box tonight just in case. I'm all for letting nature take its course, but since they are dependent upon me to provide the tools, I thought I better get some advice on options.
As a side note, the other doe I have mentioned in above posts did kindle overnight (so day 29-30) and has at least 3-4 kits in her very furry nest so far. It was 11F when I went to change water this morning, and only 17F now, so I will wait a couple more hours to actually check the kits. That number is what I could feel wiggling just by touching the top of the fur. Ecstatic! This is our first litter out of 8 breedings.

 

[Alaska Satin]

Thanks! Checked again this morning (day 30) and Tulip has again emptied about half the contents of her box. Again, all the straw in the container under her cage is about 1-2 inches long. She has a tunnel to the back in what is left but no fur pulling yet. I'm just going to keep an eye on her and refill her box tonight just in case. I'm all for letting nature take its course, but since they are dependent upon me to provide the tools, I thought I better get some advice on options.
As a side note, the other doe I have mentioned in above posts did kindle overnight (so day 29-30) and has at least 3-4 kits in her very furry nest so far. It was 11F when I went to change water this morning, and only 17F now, so I will wait a couple more hours to actually check the kits. That number is what I could feel wiggling just by touching the top of the fur. Ecstatic! This is our first litter out of 8 breedings.

Congratulations!!! That is so exciting, especially since you've tried for that long/many times! It's wonderful that at least one of your does is a great mother.

It's smart not to paw around in a nest at 11F, but if there are dead kits in there, there is a chance they might chill the live kits. My inclination would be to bring the nest box into the house and check the litter indoors. Usually I pull all of the kits out of the box (put them in a little box lined with flannel and a little fur from their own nest) so I can count them, note anything unusual, and remove dead kits or clumps of especially soiled bedding. Then I replace the kits in the nest bowl and put the fur back on top; the kits are generally very good at arranging it to their liking. You can pull the box out daily and do the counting/checking indoors. I've never had a doe reject a litter no matter how many times I pull the box.

A tunnel is hopeful for the other doe. Our little does (Holland Lops, Polish) go 30 days. The big does (Satins, Californians and Champagne D'Argents) usually kindle at 31 days, sometimes 32 and occasionally I have them go up to 35 days.

I can't wait to hear if she's actually pregnant - what a unique character!

 

[mcrvdeb]

Congratulations!!! That is so exciting, especially since you've tried for that long/many times! It's wonderful that at least one of your does is a great mother.

It's smart not to paw around in a nest at 11F, but if there are dead kits in there, there is a chance they might chill the live kits. My inclination would be to bring the nest box into the house and check the litter indoors. Usually I pull all of the kits out of the box (put them in a little box lined with flannel and a little fur from their own nest) so I can count them, note anything unusual, and remove dead kits or clumps of especially soiled bedding. Then I replace the kits in the nest bowl and put the fur back on top; the kits are generally very good at arranging it to their liking. You can pull the box out daily and do the counting/checking indoors. I've never had a doe reject a litter no matter how many times I pull the box.

A tunnel is hopeful for the other doe. Our little does (Holland Lops, Polish) go 30 days. The big does (Satins, Californians and Champagne D'Argents) usually kindle at 31 days, sometimes 32 and occasionally I have them go up to 35 days.

I can't wait to hear if she's actually pregnant - what a unique character!

Tulip's box again empty...you are right she is a character. Will refill box tonight.

I did check the new litter, using a slightly warmed towel in a dishpan. To my surprise, Tess had 9 kits by the time I checked, all live. They look great to me, no one too big or too small. All pink, wiggly, and warm!

 

[R Buns]

Tulip's box again empty...you are right she is a character. Will refill box tonight.

I did check the new litter, using a slightly warmed towel in a dishpan. To my surprise, Tess had 9 kits by the time I checked, all live. They look great to me, no one too big or too small. All pink, wiggly, and warm!

Congratulations on the successful litter!
I'm having a doe who's decided to start nesting on day 23 (today). Added a nesting box tonight as she was hay-staching like mad. The will be her first litter. She proceeded to empty the box and move the hay to her pee spot corner. Then put some back in the box. Then removed it and put it back in her pee spot. I hesitate to give her a nest box so early but with her going at it I thought that might be best. I'm questioning leaving the box in with her yet if she's going to just empty it. I wanted to move it to where she was piling and digging and rummaging around making a nest but being it's her potty spot I wasn't sure if that would be best. You are not alone in wondering. I'm doing the same in this situation. Always an adventure! Haha. Keep us posted on how she's doing. I'm really hoping you'll have kits soon and all this will be worth it for you.

 

[mcrvdeb]

Congratulations on the successful litter!
I'm having a doe who's decided to start nesting on day 23 (today). Added a nesting box tonight as she was hay-staching like mad. The will be her first litter. She proceeded to empty the box and move the hay to her pee spot corner. Then put some back in the box. Then removed it and put it back in her pee spot. I hesitate to give her a nest box so early but with her going at it I thought that might be best. I'm questioning leaving the box in with her yet if she's going to just empty it. I wanted to move it to where she was piling and digging and rummaging around making a nest but being it's her potty spot I wasn't sure if that would be best. You are not alone in wondering. I'm doing the same in this situation. Always an adventure! Haha. Keep us posted on how she's doing. I'm really hoping you'll have kits soon and all this will be worth it for you.

So, the excitement continues...day 31. Tulip had again cleaned out her nest box and cage overnight. I left it empty at 6am, figured I would refill again around 10:30 when I go out to check for frozen water. At 10:30 I discovered that she was frantically pulling fur, a lot of fur. She had a HUGE pile in the otherwise empty nest box. Grabbed a flake of straw and just put it in the cage, not in the box. Hay-staching began in earnest, along with more fur pulling. Tulip usually doesn't do anything but glare at me when I'm near her cage, but she completely ignored me while she did her kindling prep. I have cool video of her hay-staching and pulling fur. I'm going to assume at this point that she IS pregnant, and the straw waste is over.

 

[Preitler]

What style of nestbox are you using?

To me it sounds like she has good instincts and tried to dig a nesting tunnel, something rabbit sized, with a dead end and roof above. Some of mine dug such tunnels when pregnant, that's an natural instinct.

I had litters there, but moved them into the nest boxes in the hutches, I use wooden boxes with just one entrance at one side, not high enough to fully sit up, and the newer ones have the entrance higher than the dead end where the nest is, mimicking the tunnels they dig.

They can get quite pragmatic when the time comes and use whatever is available, I just let them do what that little voice in their head tells them to do, and just make sure there is an ample supply of hay.

 

[Phrick]

What style of nestbox are you using?

To me it sounds like she has good instincts and tried to dig a nesting tunnel, something rabbit sized, with a dead end and roof above. Some of mine dug such tunnels when pregnant, that's an natural instinct.

I had litters there, but moved them into the nest boxes in the hutches, I use wooden boxes with just one entrance at one side, not high enough to fully sit up, and the newer ones have the entrance higher than the dead end where the nest is, mimicking the tunnels they dig.

They can get quite pragmatic when the time comes and use whatever is available, I just let them do what that little voice in their head tells them to do, and just make sure there is an ample supply of hay.

Style of best box is something I’ve been thinking about. My doe that was pregnant that I mentioned earlier in this thread did have 7 kits but has neglected them all to death and I’m super sad. I have to wonder if the type of box I’ve been using has anything to do with it, she never has built a proper nest - only 1 of my does ever has, in fact. The others typically do ok when the kits are here but I’ve never seen typical nest building behavior. I always put it down to being in Arizona - practically none of the rules I find online work for here. But I have to wonder now if more typical boxes would improve their instincts. Right now they get a plastic sterilite basket with extra holes drilled in bottom for drainage.

This was Sunny’s last chance though, she’s gotta go. She did ok last time but one good birth out of 4 is not ok. I had a buyer ask about a house bunny not long ago (I sold her a breeding trio and another girl that turned out to be 2 and 2, oops!! So I offered a free replacement when my next litters are old enough, but I’ll see if she wants to take Sunny, otherwise it’s freezer time.

 

[mcrvdeb]

What style of nestbox are you using?

To me it sounds like she has good instincts and tried to dig a nesting tunnel, something rabbit sized, with a dead end and roof above. Some of mine dug such tunnels when pregnant, that's an natural instinct.

I had litters there, but moved them into the nest boxes in the hutches, I use wooden boxes with just one entrance at one side, not high enough to fully sit up, and the newer ones have the entrance higher than the dead end where the nest is, mimicking the tunnels they dig.

They can get quite pragmatic when the time comes and use whatever is available, I just let them do what that little voice in their head tells them to do, and just make sure there is an ample supply of hay.

My nest boxes are wood. At first, I thought maybe the nest box was not big enough for her, but she was in/out without issue while the prep was going on.
When I checked box this morning at 6, found a beautiful (to me) nest, full of straw and lots of fur, with big bowl in the middle of the back, but no kits yet. Once Tulip packed the nest box yesterday, she just stretched out and took it easy the rest of the day. Her level of activity at the time, nearly frantic, made me think kindling was imminent but it was not to be. I'm convinced she is toying with me, lol!

 

[ingers02138]

Can't wait to hear how the saga with Tulip resolves! I hope it's a successful kindling after all the drama she's thrown at you

I have a doe who's at day 32.5 at the moment. No signs of nesting at all. But last time for her, it was all fine on day 33.

 

[mcrvdeb]

Not sure what to think right now! Tulip kindled late this morning apparently. When I went down to check I noticed a large pile of wiggly fur in the front of the box, not the back where all the straw and fur made the big bowl. I also noticed a kit laying to the side of the pile. Did a quick check and found she had delivered 4 kits, 2 dead (both really, really small) and 2 live (1 quite large, the other about the size of my other new kits). I am assuming that she is done since she hasn't been back in the nest box since late this morning. Unless someone suggests otherwise, I will probably not check again today. I am a bit surprised that she did not snuggle them up in the back of the box but just covered them with fur in the open front. Do I just leave it as is? I noticed that the other group of kits (9) stays snuggled together in the back of their box and seem pretty warm, but there are only 2 in this box, and they don't seem to be as protected. It is currently about 45F, will get down in the low 20's tonight.

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

You should try moving them to the back unless you're 100% sure they can't get out

 

[mcrvdeb]

So just tuck them into the deeper straw/fur pile in the back and leave covered with fur? They can't get out of the box anytime soon.
I may have left the wrong impression about the nest box. It has 4 walls, sides sloping down a bit toward the front. The open part is the top. The top of the box only extends about halfway to the front, so the front of the box is open over the top. I would say typical nest box design but I have seen tons of variations so that might not be accurate.

 

[tambayo]

Sounds like typical nestbox, reason you want nest in the back is so that doe can hop in without stepping on the kits and heat rises, the top over the back part will help keep the heat in if they are back there and with winter and only 2 kits they may need the help.